Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

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Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby Kunzangla » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:18 pm

I attended all dudjom tersar wang lung of may 2014 at pharping.
So my question is can i start d. Tersar ngondro.
I did not attend d.tersar wang lung during 2012.
This year's wang seems upper empowerment and 2012 lower empowerment.
Hence the hesistancy.
Did i get the d.tersar ngondro wang lung when i attend this year wang lung?
If so what about phowa, i believe i did not get it this year.
So can i skip phowa during ngondro practice?
Kindly fill me up.
Also is there legit shedra of dudjom rinpoche in nepal where lay practitioner can learn dudjom tersar?
Kunzangla
 
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby ngodrup » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:26 pm

Lung is sufficient. You do not require any empowerments for
DT Ngondro. The P'howa section of the DT Ngondro is a prayer
and not a formal P'howa, so again no problem. Even the formal
P'howas within Dudjom Ter only require lung and tri but not wang.
Since you have the complete collection, you may do any DT practice.
Let nothing stop you from completing ngondro-- start now.
As you may know, there is more than one ngondro within the DT
So, many DT practitioners go on and complete a second or third
ngondro such as the T'hroma ngondro after the basic.

I think you'll have no trouble finding a suitable shedra there.
ngodrup
 
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby yegyal » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:11 am

So what you actually received was the wangs and lungs for the collected works of Dudjom Lingpa. However, Yangsi omitted about three volumes of lungs, mostly the Dzogchen instructions, and the wangs associated with the Protectors. So from what you got, you would be able to begin the Khandro Nyingthig ngondro, though you would need somebody to give you some instructions. But it's pretty easy to find somebody to give you the lung for the short Tersar ngondro in Nepal. Try Dudjom Rinpoche's monastery in Tusal, which is about a five minute walk from Boudha gate. Otherwise, the Dudjom Tersar is not something you would study in a shedra.
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby Kunzangla » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:45 pm

Thank you so much for the update.
If i got the khando Nyingthig wang then can i
practice according to Cascading waterfall of nectar
by Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche or is there
Other Sadhana practice of Khando, i do have the
super short prayer of khando.
Did i also get phowa lung???
Also i am concerned about the phowa visualization as its
mentioned in the book that phowa done at the wrong
time can kill a deity? I am just a beginner so can i practice
phowa during ngondro?
Another thing is i didnt get Dudjom Tersar lower empowerment of
Jigdral Yeshe Dorje Rinpochela. So can i practice these upper Tersar
without those foundational lower practice?
As with the samaya i believe i am commited to practice all the Tersar
collection but am i eligible to practice their sadhana with my
100000 Ngondro or i should wait till my ngondro ends.
I just feel so connected and inspired by the Tersar but dont
want to start on the wrong foot.
Kindly let me know.
Kunzangla
 
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby Yudron » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:49 pm

Kunzangla wrote:Thank you so much for the update.
If i got the khando Nyingthig wang then can i
practice according to Cascading waterfall of nectar
by Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche or is there
Other Sadhana practice of Khando, i do have the
super short prayer of khando.
Did i also get phowa lung???
Also i am concerned about the phowa visualization as its
mentioned in the book that phowa done at the wrong
time can kill a deity? I am just a beginner so can i practice
phowa during ngondro?
Another thing is i didnt get Dudjom Tersar lower empowerment of
Jigdral Yeshe Dorje Rinpochela. So can i practice these upper Tersar
without those foundational lower practice?
As with the samaya i believe i am commited to practice all the Tersar
collection but am i eligible to practice their sadhana with my
100000 Ngondro or i should wait till my ngondro ends.
I just feel so connected and inspired by the Tersar but dont
want to start on the wrong foot.
Kindly let me know.


Hi. I completed three year retreat in the Dudjom Tersar, and don't usually post publicly to DW, but your heartfelt plea is impossible to ignore. I am not a teacher, but I know the routine.

Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche wrote a commentary on the Khandro Nyingthig ngondro of Dudjom Lingpa, also known as the Sa ter ngondro. http://www.amazon.com/Torch-Lighting-Wa ... m+rinpoche

Cascading Waterfall is a general ngondro commentary, great for all ngondros.

Because the Sa Ter ngondro recitation is long, there is the short Tersar ngondro that Kyabje Dudjom RInpoche promoted for busy people, like most working people. Most lamas would say you can do either version, and there are other Dudjom ngondros as well. If you no longer have access to Yangsi Rinpoche, then I think you are safe doing either one, depending on your circumstances. Long and short are the same practice, but the long one spells out all the "how to" in the recitation text itself, and the whort one expects you to have learned all the visualizations elsewhere. I think you can safely do the Tersar if you got the text for the Sa ter, but--as I said in a PM to you--almost any Nyingma lama can give you the lung for the Tersar ngondro. It doesn't have to be anyone special.

You don't really perform the actual phowa in the ngondro, it's more like an aspiration prayer to accomplish the phowa when you die. Don't worry about it. Secondly, deities can't be killed. But, doing actual phowa daily is not recommended in this tradition.

There is no reason to be stressed or worried about starting ngondro. You can't really go wrong. As far as doing deity practices at the same time you are doing ngondro; if you have had lung, wang, and tri, there is nothing incorrect about that. However, you will find you don't have much time for other practices while you are accomplishing your first ngondro.
Yudron
 
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby ngodrup » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:42 pm

Absolutely everything Yudron wrote.

There is simply no reason not to start, no danger.
Life is short. Do it now. You may do other practices
but focus on what you're accumulation so you can
actually complete it. Again, the P'howa in the DT Ngondro
is actually just a short aspiration prayer. Nothing to fear.

The 'killing the deity' thing is a metaphor. You have become
the deity if you have received empowerment. You do not
want to cut your precious rebirth short. That will not happen
by praying to be able to do P'howa.

Again, life is short. Don't let superstitious thinking stop you
from accomplishing some real meaning.
ngodrup
 
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby Kunzangla » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:14 pm

Ngodrupla i did know its a metaphor,
but didnt wanted to mention about
"not stopping the phowa practice till
sign of accomplishment" as mentioned in the book.
Since i got the khando wang i will do khando ngondro
after i get Payja.
Can you kindly let me know what 'other ngondro'
there are from Dudjom lingpa collection of
Dudjom Tersar.
Kunzangla
 
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Re: Dudjom tersar Ngondro Prerequisite

Postby Yudron » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:42 pm

Kunzangla wrote:Ngodrupla i did know its a metaphor,
but didnt wanted to mention about
"not stopping the phowa practice till
sign of accomplishment" as mentioned in the book.
Since i got the khando wang i will do khando ngondro
after i get Payja.
Can you kindly let me know what 'other ngondro'
there are from Dudjom lingpa collection of
Dudjom Tersar.


Dudjom Lingpa had the Sa Ter (KN) ngondro and the Throma Ngondro. The Khandro Nyingthig is a cycle of many terma deity practices via Dudjom Lingpa. Dudjom Lingpa's students did the Sa Ter ngondro first, then the Throma ngondro if they were going to practice Throma. The Sa Ter Ngondro is similar to the Longchen Nyingthig ngondro.

I suggest not viewing Jigral Yeshe Dorje, Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche, as separate from Dudjom Lingpa. Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche wrote the condensed Sa Ter ngondro practice we know as the Tersar ngondro, and asked Chatral Rinpoche to write the Khandro Thukthik ngondro for his KT terma cycle. There is another very short ngondro that Kyabje RInpoche wrote for one person that sometimes circulates around.

They are all wonderful. If you truly have the time each day to do a long recitation, the Sa Ter ngondro has beautiful poetic language that creates a lovely atmosphere for practice. I've heard Chatral Rinpoche likes people to do the longer ones, such as that one. You can't go wrong.

You can do a week retreat on any phowa practice when one of your lamas offers it. You will accomplish the practice then. No need to be concerned about it now.
Yudron
 
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