Most recent terma?

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6997
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by kirtu »

heart wrote:I just now reread Jamgon Kongtrul's biography, "A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems", and it strikes me that he, just like ChNNR, has a huge amount of dreams with all kinds of transmissions in them. He meet enlightened masters, and deities and receive teachings from them. He finds termas and see "signs of termas", he receive Tantras and transmissions of Tantras, he do practices such as Tögal in his dreams and so on.
But he remained skeptical of terma - he had to be goaded into entering a cave where Chokgyur Lingpa and Khyentse Wangpo were sort of extracting terma by the armload and they sort of ordered him to go get his. I'm not quite sure what to make of that incident.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6292
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by heart »

kirtu wrote:
heart wrote:I just now reread Jamgon Kongtrul's biography, "A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems", and it strikes me that he, just like ChNNR, has a huge amount of dreams with all kinds of transmissions in them. He meet enlightened masters, and deities and receive teachings from them. He finds termas and see "signs of termas", he receive Tantras and transmissions of Tantras, he do practices such as Tögal in his dreams and so on.
But he remained skeptical of terma - he had to be goaded into entering a cave where Chokgyur Lingpa and Khyentse Wangpo were sort of extracting terma by the armload and they sort of ordered him to go get his. I'm not quite sure what to make of that incident.

Kirt
Really, where in his biography is this incident? He was a very dedicated practitioner of termas all his life for example Könchok Chidu and Lama Gongdu.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
mutsuk
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by mutsuk »

heart wrote:He was a very dedicated practitioner of termas all his life...
Not to mention the fact that, before his forced conversion to Kagyus, he was an ardent practitioner of the rTsa-rlung mkha'-'gro gsang-mdzod from the New Bon tradition. It is a gter-ma by the 1st Kun-grol rinpoche. Kongtrul even included the entire cycle in the Rin-chen gter-mdzod (in vol. 63).
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6292
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by heart »

mutsuk wrote:
heart wrote:He was a very dedicated practitioner of termas all his life...
Not to mention the fact that, before his forced conversion to Kagyus, he was an ardent practitioner of the rTsa-rlung mkha'-'gro gsang-mdzod from the New Bon tradition. It is a gter-ma by the 1st Kun-grol rinpoche. Kongtrul even included the entire cycle in the Rin-chen gter-mdzod (in vol. 63).
He was at Sechen for a while before he came to Palpung. I think the thing was that he got sponsored if he went to Palpung, but their attitude towards his Nyingma monk vows were quite sad.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
mutsuk
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by mutsuk »

Even before Sechen, he had drang-srong (bonpo) vows which he did not want to give back when he had to convert to the buddhist vinaya. He was forced to anyway... In any case, his appreciation of gter-ma was pristine from the start, mostly because nearly 99 per cent of the Bon literature (in which he was such an expert) is gter-ma.
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6292
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by heart »

mutsuk wrote:Even before Sechen, he had drang-srong (bonpo) vows which he did not want to give back when he had to convert to the buddhist vinaya. He was forced to anyway... In any case, his appreciation of gter-ma was pristine from the start, mostly because nearly 99 per cent of the Bon literature (in which he was such an expert) is gter-ma.
I agree, he really seems to appreciate terma, and he was a terton himself. He also written a lot of sadhanas and commentaries in the Chokling Tersar as well as many other terma cycles.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Yeti
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by Yeti »

heart wrote:
mutsuk wrote:Even before Sechen, he had drang-srong (bonpo) vows which he did not want to give back when he had to convert to the buddhist vinaya. He was forced to anyway... In any case, his appreciation of gter-ma was pristine from the start, mostly because nearly 99 per cent of the Bon literature (in which he was such an expert) is gter-ma.
I agree, he really seems to appreciate terma, and he was a terton himself. He also written a lot of sadhanas and commentaries in the Chokling Tersar as well as many other terma cycles.

/magnus
Guru Rinpoche left one terma to either Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo or Chogyur Lingpa which was to be given to Jamgon Kongtrul only, as it's sole purpose was to dispel obstacles to his health.
"People are fond of saying all sorts of things about others behind their backs, mentioning their names again and again. Instead of slandering others in this way, “slander” the yidam: utter his name repeatedly by reciting his mantra all the time." - Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche - Zurchungpa’s Testament - Shambhala Publications
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6997
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by kirtu »

heart wrote:
kirtu wrote: But he remained skeptical of terma - he had to be goaded into entering a cave where Chokgyur Lingpa and Khyentse Wangpo were sort of extracting terma by the armload and they sort of ordered him to go get his. I'm not quite sure what to make of that incident.

Kirt
Really, where in his biography is this incident? He was a very dedicated practitioner of termas all his life for example Könchok Chidu and Lama Gongdu.
It's not nearly as skeptical as I remember: pg 147 "Gem of Many Colors"
Seating me on a throne made of stones, the two of them invested me with the title of a terton and performed a ceremony for my long life. Each of these masters discovered a profound terma, after which we went to the ancestral estate of the Alo Dilgo family to begin a mendrup ritual focusing on the Eight Commands. We then journeyed together to Perna Shelri. We performed feast offerings at such places as Osel Shelphuk Cave (associated with Bairotsana), and the two masters also opened Orgyen Sangphuk Cave. Each of them discovered a cache of termas. The great terton even urged me to try, and I came out of the Orgyen Sangphuk Cave with a casket of termas in my hands and offered it to him.
He indeed practiced terma and had faith in Chokgyur Lingpa and Khyentse Wangpo. Initially he did not know what to make of Chokgyur Lingpa and was skeptical of him until he was vetted by Khyentse Wangpo. His attitude toward tertons seemed to me to be guarded but I'd have to go back through his works to see if that were the case. By guarded, I mean that apparently some deluded people have claimed to be tertons and he certainly required investigation first.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
mutsuk
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by mutsuk »

He was not skeptical about gter-ma or gter-ston in general but when mChog gyur gling pa came to him, mChog gyur had a (bad) reputation (because of people from his region who called him skya-gter, etc.). But Kongtrul is THE one responsible for compiling the Rin-chen gter-mdzod, therefore I don't think he had been skeptical about gter-ma at all. He was however well aware of fakes and tried to collect all transmissions of major (as well as minor) gter-mas available by his time.
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by dzogchungpa »

What does "skya gter" mean?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
mutsuk
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by mutsuk »

It means terton from the sKyasu clan with, in the context it occurs, a depreciative connotation. Kyasu was the family name of Chogyur Lingpa, an important familial clan of the Nangchen region.
Sherlock
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by Sherlock »

From a transcript of a teaching ChNNR gave about the Jnanadakini practice he received:
I have been talking a lot about my dreams and many people think I am a terton because I have these kinds of dreams. But I have never said I am a terton and I do not feel I am one. Tertons can also discover material objects. I receive these kinds of teachings mainly in my dreams. It is true that I have a certain capacity of dreams. Many people say they are realized. I never say I am realized. I do not feel I am realized. I feel I have a certain capacity of dreams that maybe you do not have yet. That is true. But I am always teaching you how you can have that capacity too."
User avatar
flavio81
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:25 am
Location: Lima, Peru

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by flavio81 »

Sherlock wrote:From a transcript of a teaching ChNNR gave about the Jnanadakini practice he received:
I have been talking a lot about my dreams and many people think I am a terton because I have these kinds of dreams. But I have never said I am a terton and I do not feel I am one. Tertons can also discover material objects. I receive these kinds of teachings mainly in my dreams. It is true that I have a certain capacity of dreams. Many people say they are realized. I never say I am realized. I do not feel I am realized. I feel I have a certain capacity of dreams that maybe you do not have yet. That is true. But I am always teaching you how you can have that capacity too."
He also said the same (underlined) on a Lima retreat some years ago. Something like:

"I do not say i am realized. What i say is that perhaps i have a little more capacity than you, and that's why i teach you."

That moment of humility and honesty brought a tear into my eye.
Sherlock
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by Sherlock »

He always says that, especially when he mentions the story of how some organizers in New Zealand once packed his schedule completely full of events because they said they thought he was enlightened and didn't need sleep.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by Malcolm »

mutsuk wrote:Even before Sechen, he had drang-srong (bonpo) vows which he did not want to give back when he had to convert to the buddhist vinaya. He was forced to anyway... In any case, his appreciation of gter-ma was pristine from the start, mostly because nearly 99 per cent of the Bon literature (in which he was such an expert) is gter-ma.
If you read his bio, there he recounts that because he devloped doubts about terma while at palpung he devloped some obstacles.
mutsuk
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Most recent terma?

Post by mutsuk »

It cannot be a generalization about gter-ma per se, since before he was forced to conversion, he was very active in the diffusion of he gter-mas of the 1st Kun grol Rinpoche as well as those of Sangs-rgyas gling-pa (Byang-chub rdo-rje). His main practice at the time was that of the rTsa-rlung mkha'-'gro gsang-mdzod which itself is a gter-ma (kun grol's). Therefore I think he had doubt about some nyingma gter ma. I can imagine why he had doubt about some of these, gSang sngags gling pa who was a gter-ston himself was very careful in recognizing "authentic" gter-mas. Theirs was a time when frauds abounded...
Post Reply

Return to “Nyingma”