Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Bhusuku
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Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Bhusuku » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:10 am

Hello folks!

I'm a little confused about the incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche.
Since Patrul Orgyen Jigme Chökyi Wangpo was recognized as the reincarnation of Palge Samten Phuntsok, I always thought that he is considered as the 1st Patrul Rinpoche, followed by Tsö Patrul Rinpoche Kunzang Shenpen Özer (who was a student of Adzom Drukpa). But mentions the following lineage:

- the 1. Patrul Samten Phuntsok,
- the 2. Patrul Khampa Ngotsarchen,
- the 3. Patrul Orgyen Jigmé Chokyi Wangpo,
- the 4. Patrul Namkha Jigmé,
- the 5. Patrul Jigmé Rikpey Dorjé.

So, this website lists 5 Patrul Rinpoches, with Orgyen Jigme Chokyi Wangpo being #3, but doesn't mention Tsö Patrul Rinpoche at all, and it also says that the 5th Patrul Rinpoche, Jigme Rikpey Dorje Palzangpo, was born in 1963 and died in 2008.

However, the biography of (who was also born in 1963 and currently resides in Belgium) states that he is the current incarnation of Patrul Rinpoche, although not #5 or #6, but apparently #3... And beside this 3rd incarnation, there is also and apparently yet another living at the Dzogchen monastery.

So it seems there are currently three different incarnations, and only a couple of years ago there have been even four of them.... :shrug:

yegyal
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby yegyal » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:10 am

I think you have to differentiate between the Palge line of incarnations and those recognized as tulkus of Jigme Chokyi Wangpo specifically. It sounds strange, but this happened quite often when a tulku gained a greater status for their individual achievements than they did from their tulku line. Both Kongtrul and Khyentse are examples of this, as well. The line of incarnation that these individuals were recognized as continues after their death, but other incarnations are recognized sporadically that don't necessarily assume the seat or property of the main incarnation line, but are given the title nonetheless.

I hope that helps a little. As for the specifics of the Paltrul line or Paltrul-truls, I really don't know much.

Arnoud
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Arnoud » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:58 am

There is also a Patrul Rinpoche incarnation living in Tso Pema. BTW, I remember Heart once saying that the Belgian Patrul incarnation is not completely without controversy.

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heart
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby heart » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:12 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Yeti
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Yeti » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:39 am

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember that Patrul Rinpoche said somewhere that he wouldn't reincarnate or manifest a tulku.

I think a few lamas have made such proclamations, but it hasn't stopped a line a tulkus springing up.

It gives rise to a namtok song in my mind "You can't stop the tulku, nobody can stop the tulku" to the tune of the Village People's "You Can't Stop the Music".
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

Bhusuku
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Bhusuku » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:26 pm


Matylda
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Matylda » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:48 pm

Well it seems very complicated, more then ever before...
Moreover Chinese are now very good in spreading their own tulkus around the world... they have clear agenda doing so. And Westerners are pretty naive to follow easily anyone who claims whatever claims.

Sorry, in Taiwan it happens as well, not only there, but generally were the bigger community of Chinese believers appears in Asia.

Chinese gov's have long long history using people for their own purpose, so it happenes now with Tibetan Buddhism, and it has weak, very weak point, namely tulku system...

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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby heart » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:44 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Yeti
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Yeti » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:52 pm

I was fortunate to go on a pilgrimage to Central Tibet in 2007. I planned it so that I would be at Chimphu on the 10th lunar day of that month (June). When I arrived at Chimphu Utse Nunnery at the foot of Chimphu that morning, a huge practice session was in progress. There were two lamas on thrones. Both of them affected me strongly, I sensed a powerful samadhi that drew me in. I was captivated by these two lamas, so I asked my guide to find out who they were. He told me that the main one was Dza Patrul Rinpoche. Here is a humble video of some of that session;
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

yegyal
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby yegyal » Wed May 01, 2013 1:36 am

Last edited by kirtu on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed ending quote tag

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Sun May 05, 2013 7:45 pm


Yeti
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Yeti » Tue May 07, 2013 12:04 pm

I think there are many who emanate in different forms other than a line of a tulku. But it makes sense to emanate as a lineage tulku if there is the tendrel to continue the body, speech, mind, qualities and activity of that lineage. Maybe do both :smile:
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

Stewart
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Stewart » Tue May 07, 2013 2:01 pm

I know another contemporary Rinpoche who is considered an emanation of Patrul, although I'm not sure in which aspect.

There is a famous Mani wall in Tibet which was built by Patrul Rinpoche, when he finished it he declared that in the future a Tulku of him would return to finish and maintain it, and that people could have confidence that Patrul had returned.

Anyway, this Rinpoche never talk about it, he just gets on with looking after it as one of his projects in Tibet. But years ago Mindrolling Rinpoche mentioned this prophecy by Patrul when he heard Rinpoche had taken over the care of this huge Mani wall.
s.

Yeti
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Yeti » Tue May 07, 2013 10:14 pm

"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue May 07, 2013 11:08 pm


michaelb
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby michaelb » Tue May 07, 2013 11:39 pm

I vaguely recall, though I'm not sure where from, that either Jigme Gyalwai Nyugu or Patrul Rinpoche said they would always be reborn as Khenpo or abbot of Dzagyal gompa in Dzachuka. I think Khenpo Choechok Rinpoche may have been Dzagyal Khenpo when he was recognized. I knew him from when I was in Tso Pema. He might still live there. I haven't been back for quite a while.

KalzangNorlha
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby KalzangNorlha » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:39 am


Yeti
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Yeti » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:43 am

"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

michaelb
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby michaelb » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:53 pm


Yeti
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Re: Incarnations of Patrul Rinpoche

Postby Yeti » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:00 am

"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche


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