Practical question on ngondro

[passel]

I have a practical question on extraordinary ngondro: What physical supports have you found helpful for doing prostrations?

I had been using a 5' board from Home Depot with a yoga mat under it to keep it from slipping on the rug in my apartment, cotton gloves so my hands can slide and a bath mat under my feet so I don't put holes in the carpet (learned the hard way). My mala is fine for counting, w/ pennies in a cup to mark each mala.

What have you used? I'm sure there's plenty of ingenuity on here to draw from.

[Fortyeightvows]

Writing the names of the buddhas on a big white board for recitation while doing prostrations

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

For counting something like this:
http://www.sunplay.com/sportcount-lap-c ... Ar6G8P8HAQ
It's a lap counter for swimmers and fits on your finger. That's not the exact model I've got, but I don't see it advertised anywhere currently.

Consider a couple 7"x5" pieces of carpet soft side down instead of the gloves for the slide. It will keep you hands from getting hot.

If you lama allows it, a platform that is raised about 3" or 4", basically a couple of 2"x4" under the platform on edge does it. The physically hard part of prostrations is pushing yourself back up off the floor, and if your feet are a few inches lower than your body it takes like 40% less effort. I find I can do the mental part better if I'm not physically wiped out. For some lamas that's a big no-no, but I see a lot of Tibetans doing it. (On the other hand you'll get a great ab workout if it is just on the floor.)

[Losal Samten]

Learning to keep your lumbar arched is very important alongside keeping the back straight and the head aligned, as with increased muscle and mental fatigue the conditions for injury increase. This comes from a weightlifting standpoint but the principal is the same.

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[kalden yungdrung]

I have a practical question on extraordinary ngondro: What physical supports have you found helpful for doing prostrations?

I had been using a 5' board from Home Depot with a yoga mat under it to keep it from slipping on the rug in my apartment, cotton gloves so my hands can slide and a bath mat under my feet so I don't put holes in the carpet (learned the hard way). My mala is fine for counting, w/ pennies in a cup to mark each mala.

What have you used? I'm sure there's plenty of ingenuity on here to draw from.

Tashi delek P,

Well those prostrations can be harmful to the knee joints.
Every joint is oiled and the prostrations can cause that this smear or lubricating is not functioning well. The ligaments get irritated and so an inflammation is easy caused.

Then if you are passed the 50 years, one should be careful in not irritating the muscles, tendons and ligaments.
Like in sport you have to build it up, the number of prostrations. Then you will see that you are limited to a certain number of prostrations.

So combine the prostrations (by doing maybe 1000 daily) with sitting practice like mandala offering etc.
Then do some prostrations again. IMO it is not forbidden to combine Ngondro.

Do not go over the top, because the mind does like to finish these exercises very fast.

Protection of your knee joints is very important ! Recovering from a joint inflammation takes a long time, because you move with that joint, the joint cannot rest. And rest is needed to recover from for instance a knee inflammation.

Many Tibetans forget that westerns have a job............

Knee protector.jpg (19.88 KiB) Viewed 6011 times

Mutsug marro

[Ayu]

I always put my knees on a big cushion of foam material. Looks like being overprotective, but my knees are save and healthy.
Also I find it important to start slowly with caution at first with only few prostrations. Like this the body gets used to that training and the amount of prostrations can be increased to the threshold of no difficulties.

[passel]

This is great, folks. Keep the suggestions coming; I was surprised someone wrote to keep the numbers reasonable- only 1000 a day!

At my current rate, this would be 3+ hours of practice on prostrations alone. (@ ~20 minutes to a mala; 15 if I'm really cooking). I'm approaching middle age but in good shape. Is this similar to others' experience?

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

I always put my knees on a big cushion of foam material.

Good point. I get some closed cell foam, like the kind you use as ground insulation while camping, and double stick tape it to the board.

Also I got some 2" tape and put down a couple horizontal rows in front of the pad. That way I've got a non-skid surface to push up from. Somehow I can get the pads moving again on the slide without them sticking. Don't ask me why the tape doesn't make it difficult on the way down.

[DGA]

The most important thing I've learned about prostrations, and this is true of Tibetan and Japanese style, is to:

*keep your attention on the practice itself overall. what are you doing here? what is visualized, what is said, what is done? what is the objective? do it with devotion and sincerity

*make each gesture feel like an offering; intend for it to be such

*be mindful of form. I had a bad habit of letting my knees slam down too hard on the floor for a long time, and I paid dearly for it. don't do that. instead, keep your movements under control, gentle, smooth, graceful.

*rejoice in doing it. feel good about doing it. some of my peers really resent having to do prostrations, which is totally counterproductive. avoid that trap. it's a great opportunity to learn, a very efficient and helpful practice.

*don't worry so much about externals, like which pants to wear or what to put on your hands. I've destroyed three pair of tough work pants--one pair completely worn through, patched, worn through again, patched again, then worn through again--with this practice. One pair came from a martial arts gi. don't expect your prostration set-up to behave the way you think it will, that's my point, because your stuff will wear out a lot faster than your resolve to practice will.

*keep going! keep going! keep going! we're counting on you.

[Thomas Amundsen]

At my current rate, this would be 3+ hours of practice on prostrations alone. (@ ~20 minutes to a mala; 15 if I'm really cooking). I'm approaching middle age but in good shape. Is this similar to others' experience?

Yes. I am not even middle age and that's exactly how it is for me. 15 minutes is the absolute fastest I can do.

[kalden yungdrung]

This is great, folks. Keep the suggestions coming; I was surprised someone wrote to keep the numbers reasonable- only 1000 a day!

At my current rate, this would be 3+ hours of practice on prostrations alone. (@ ~20 minutes to a mala; 15 if I'm really cooking). I'm approaching middle age but in good shape. Is this similar to others' experience?

Tashi delek P,

Sure it is maybe too much for you, and sorry for that number 1000 that was something about myself and we never can say this does count for everybody.

I had some years ago, 29 years the whole day the time to finish this Ngöndro.
So i started with 300 and ended with 1000 a day.

But i did practise all together.

Guru Yoga first, then prostrations etc. I did spent on every Ngöndro 3 hours.
Did only had a break for eating and sleeping. That is a good way to practice.

Mutsug Marro
KY

[Ayu]

The fastest I can do is 35 in 10 minutes. Means 140 or 175 in one hour. The maximum I did at one day is 350. That's the limit my old body gives. But I'm gracious I can do them at all. Since time is running quickly I have the urgent feeling to do them NOW, not later long term.
Right now I'm in a phase to do 280 a day - I hope to finish within the next three month.

So, when I wrote "start slowly", I meant really slow: like starting with 7 or 10, and then 21 or 35 next week.

...

*keep your attention on the practice itself overall. what are you doing here? what is visualized, what is said, what is done? what is the objective? do it with devotion and sincerity
...
*rejoice in doing it. feel good about doing it.
...
*keep going! keep going! keep going! we're counting on you.

I picked these three advices as most important from my POV. Prostrations are wonderful, if you've found the flow.
I also imagine many beings around me and I do it for them.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

physical supports

Oven mitts. Not kidding.

[passel]

What about the board? any specifics on the board?

[kalden yungdrung]

What about the board? any specifics on the board?

Tashi delek P,


Oh yes that is what i forgot to mention.

The boards in the handy craft shops are mostly 220* 120 cm.
Take hard wood veneer.

The length is ok but the width can be reduced to 80 cm.
Then the board must be heightened / increased

That is good for your knees as well your ody does consume less energy.
And you can go faster.

Try different heights for your board seen your length.
Then the board has to go up slowly .
Make all the edges and lengths round.

You can varnish your board because you will sweat a lot.
And you it works faster regarding prostrations.

Hope this helps

Mutsug Marro
KY

[Thomas Amundsen]

What about the board? any specifics on the board?

You should get permission from your guru for that. I was taught not to use one.

[passel]

no board at all? interesting. i'm guessing you are not working on carpet, maybe you have hardwood floors?

[DGA]

I didn't do it on a board either, nor did I put anything on my hands. I did have a rectangle of tough upholstery fabric that I put on the floor--to protect the carpet per our lease agreement

[Thomas Amundsen]

no board at all? interesting. i'm guessing you are not working on carpet, maybe you have hardwood floors?

Yes, I do have hardwood floors. But I put down a yoga mat to soften the floor and cover it with a sheet.

[passel]

tom- ok, that makes sense; the sheet for glide.

DGA- carpet burn?

I think a board is just fine for me, with a hardware store sticky mat glued to the bottom and a camping pad for the knees.