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 Post subject: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:05 pm 
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I have heard that Dorje Drolo is closely associated with Dzogchen...does anybody know in what way? I have had the transmission but am unable to find very much out there. This is all I have been able to find:
"Guru Dorje Drolo is the crazy wrathful Buddha of the degenerate era. He has no regular pattern to his wrath. He is completely out of order!" He is a manifestation of crazy wisdom. He is an ecstatic manifestation of Padmasambhava, the deity Dorje Drolo embodies the forces of insight and compassion beyond logic and convention. Invoking in the practitioner the fearlessness and spontaneity of the awakened state, Dorje Drolo transforms hesitancy and clinging into enlightened activity. Dorje Drolo's energy overcomes distinctions of life and death, representing instead a continual process of giving birth to new circumstances and possibilities. Padmasambhava manifested as Dorje Drolo at numerous pilgrimage places in order to subvert indigenous Tibetan beliefs in demons and malevolent gods, redirecting their powerful energies toward the path of wisdom and compassion. Dorje Drolo, the subverter of demons, looks very wrathful. He has fangs, an overbite, and three eyes. He wears Tibetan boots, a chuba and monk's robes, two white conch shell earrings, and a garland of severed heads. His hair is bright red and curly, giving off sparks. To show how truly crazy he is, he dances on the back of a pregnant tigress, surrounded by flames which signifies the latent power of our intrinsic Buddha Nature. The tigress is often depicted as also dancing, so that everything is in motion. Dorje Drolo had 5 dakini consorts/acolytes who he worked with and engaged in tantric practice with. This Buddha is not your typical serene, passive Buddha. He is dynamic and brings calm and enlightenment in unconventional ways."

Any and all help in understanding the purpose for doing Dorje Drolo practice and how it is connected to Dzogchen other than the eliminating of obstacles would be greatly appreciated.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:32 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

http://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=478

http://www.beezone.com/DorjeDrolo/dorje_drolo.htm

That's all I can find so far. Maybe Freezecast has the retreat available on replay?

The name has 3 alternative spellings: Drolo, Drollo and Drolod.

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:30 pm 
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He's one of the wrathful manifestations of Padmasambhava. Along with Guru Dragphur. (Which is why he's closely associated with the teaching).


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:28 am 
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Drolo will help in getting rid of fear, this is beneficial to your Dzogchen practice.

Kevin

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Drollo is means total integration. When you are totally integrated, everything becomes your servant.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.


In most Dzogchen lineages, but not all, Drolo and Phurba are practiced separately. In your lama's terma tradition they are together.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.


In most Dzogchen lineages, but not all, Drolo and Phurba are practiced separately. In your lama's terma tradition they are together.


What do you mean? A sadhana specifically for Vajrakilaya and one for Drollo? There is no Vajrakilaya practice by itself in the DC, also this is actually Adzom Drugpa's terma.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Malcolm...very interesting..something to think about..thank you

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.


In most Dzogchen lineages, but not all, Drolo and Phurba are practiced separately. In your lama's terma tradition they are together.


Tragphur is a combination of several deities, not just Phurba.

Tragphur and Drollo have separate practices.

In specific rituals we can use Drollo instead of Tragphur, not together at all - no idea where you got that from. ;)

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Last edited by Blue Garuda on Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
Yudron wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.


In most Dzogchen lineages, but not all, Drolo and Phurba are practiced separately. In your lama's terma tradition they are together.


Tragphur is a combination of several deities, not just Phurba.

They have separate practices.

In specific rituals we can use Drollo instead of Tragphur, not together at all - no idea where you got that from. ;)


Sorry, one of your sangha had told me that Guru Drag phur was Drollo with a phurba body, e.g. Drollo and Phurba combined. I'm not familiar with it at all.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:38 pm 
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We have a very short practice of Hayagriva and Guru Drak Phur combined in the Tsok kyi Thukthig cycle of HH Dudjom Rinpoche, but I don't know any one who practices it. Guru drak phur wrathful GR with a phurba body and a horse head, etc..

For Dudjom folks, it is under "dril drub" in the back of volume MA of the DSB.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Yudron wrote:

Sorry, one of your sangha had told me that Guru Drag phur was Drollo with a phurba body, e.g. Drollo and Phurba combined. I'm not familiar with it at all.


Ah, I see.

They may have meant Guru Dragpo, which is a combination of fewer deities that Dragphur/Tragphur as you describe. :)

If you Google the pics you can see the difference between Dgagpo and Drollo. I believe both are forms of Padmasambhava.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
We have a very short practice of Hayagriva and Guru Drak Phur combined in the Tsok kyi Thukthig cycle of HH Dudjom Rinpoche, but I don't know any one who practices it. Guru drak phur wrathful GR with a phurba body and a horse head, etc..

For Dudjom folks, it is under "dril drub" in the back of volume MA of the DSB.



I think Hayagriva is already part of Dragpo and Dragphur in the practices I know, and they are both pictured with the green horse head.

Guru Dragpo - Hayagriva, Vajrapani and Garuda. (Also called Nyenpa Lha Sum, by Dzochen Rinpoche).

Image

Guru Dragphur - Dragpo with a Heruka and Vajrakilaya added.

Image

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Last edited by Blue Garuda on Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.


In most Dzogchen lineages, but not all, Drolo and Phurba are practiced separately. In your lama's terma tradition they are together.


Dragphur that is used in Dzogchen Community is actually a combination of Guru Dragpo,KIlaya, Hayagriva, Yangdag Heruka, Vajrapani and Garuda.

The principle of Dragphur is based on the so called "Son kilayas"of the KIlaya mandala, which is where the lower activities are concerned.

Most major cycles of terma have some form or another of a Tragpur yidam, including Dudjom Lingpa's termas.

Guru Dorje Drollo and Guru Dragpo are generally considered synoymous and often you see the mantra for Dragpo being used for Drollo Sadhanas. When I first receive the Dudjom Tersar tradition of Drollo from Ngagpa Yeshe Dorje, he explained the account of Guru Dragpo subduing Pehar. I have also been told, in connection with the Tersar lineage that Drollo is considered something like the essence of Kilaya and when I talked with Shenphen Rinpoche, he confirmed that indeed, all the instructions from Namchag Putri concerning Dzogchen etc., were applicable to Drollo since there is no elaborate set ofseperate teachings on Dzogchen for Drollo.

However, it is not the case Guru Dragphur is Drollo combined with Phurba -- ChNN never explains it that way. Dorje Drollo is Dorje Drollo; Guru Dragphur is Guru Dragphur. They are more less the same in function. But they have different sources. According to ChNN, origin of Drollo is in Bhutan, where Drollo subdued the Bon deity Ati Muwer, and took her as his mount. The origin of Dragpo is Samye, where Guru Rinpoche subdued Pehar.

Further, the place of Paro Taktsang was the site of a tiger god worshipped by the ancient people living there; and Paro Takstang was hit by a flaming meteor which was taken as sign of that god. This ancient memory is referenced in the Padma Srogdrup sadhana of Dudjom Tersar.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Yudron wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6781&hilit=DROLLO#p80925

I understand Drollo can be used in the Thuns in place of Guru Tragphur.


In most Dzogchen lineages, but not all, Drolo and Phurba are practiced separately. In your lama's terma tradition they are together.


Dragphur that is used in Dzogchen Community is actually a combination of Guru Dragpo,KIlaya, Hayagriva, Yangdag Heruka, Vajrapani and Garuda.

The principle of Dragphur is based on the so called "Son kilayas"of the KIlaya mandala, which is where the lower activities are concerned.

Most major cycles of terma have some form or another of a Tragpur yidam, including Dudjom Lingpa's termas.

Guru Dorje Drollo and Guru Dragpo are generally considered synoymous and often you see the mantra for Dragpo being used for Drollo Sadhanas. When I first receive the Dudjom Tersar tradition of Drollo from Ngagpa Yeshe Dorje, he explained the account of Guru Dragpo subduing Pehar. I have also been told, in connection with the Tersar lineage that Drollo is considered something like the essence of Kilaya and when I talked with Shenphen Rinpoche, he confirmed that indeed, all the instructions from Namchag Putri concerning Dzogchen etc., were applicable to Drollo since there is no elaborate set ofseperate teachings on Dzogchen for Drollo.

However, it is not the case Guru Dragphur is Drollo combined with Phurba -- ChNN never explains it that way. Dorje Drollo is Dorje Drollo; Guru Dragphur is Guru Dragphur. They are more less the same in function. But they have different sources. According to ChNN, origin of Drollo is in Bhutan, where Drollo subdued the Bon deity Ati Muwer, and took her as his mount. The origin of Dragpo is Samye, where Guru Rinpoche subdued Pehar.

Further, the place of Paro Taktsang was the site of a tiger god worshipped by the ancient people living there; and Paro Takstang was hit by a flaming meteor which was taken as sign of that god. This ancient memory is referenced in the Padma Srogdrup sadhana of Dudjom Tersar.



Whew.

Thank goodness for someone who knows! :)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:52 pm 
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The recent Garuda donwang that ChNN gave seems to combine Hayagriva as well as Vajrakilaya too.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Nice post, Malcolm.

As you know, the Nam Chag Putri, and Khandro Thukthig completion stage instructions are the most detailed in the Tersar--while of course the Neyluk Rangjyung is the the closest we have to something like the Yeshe Lama. But there are many other terrific Dzogchen texts.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Sherlock wrote:
The recent Garuda donwang that ChNN gave seems to combine Hayagriva as well as Vajrakilaya too.



And Vajrapani.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
which is where the lower activities are concerned


?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Sherlock wrote:
The recent Garuda donwang that ChNN gave seems to combine Hayagriva as well as Vajrakilaya too.



And Vajrapani.


Is the central (upper body) figure always the 'lead' deity?

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