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Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ? - Dhamma Wheel

Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
morning mist
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Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby morning mist » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:02 pm

I just came across some tragic information about what people are facing in southern Thailand . What is the best thing to do for Buddhist living in these area ? Is self protection and protecting others against the dhamma ?


Muslims Behead 9 year old Buddhist Boy in Thailand, Murder Family

"…..Then they hanged or beheaded the rest of his family, including what appears to be a toddler. Yet another example of Muslim on Buddhist violence in a country where Muslims are only a small minority.

Live Leak - More than than 4000 people from police and teachers to monks and children have been killed in the past 7 years by Muslims in southern Thailand, but hardly a word in the mainstream media. In Southern Thailand Muslim gunmen continue killing and threatening innocent citizens. The Muslim insurgents have threatened to kill 20 teachers and have distributed fliers that said, “WANTED: 20 Deaths of Buddhist teachers.” Muslim terrorists object to the education system which teaches Buddhist culture that is not acceptable in Islam. The attacks are intended to force Buddhists to leave the region because Muslims want to create an independent Muslim nation in the three southern provinces."
Last edited by morning mist on Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
with metta,

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cooran
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby cooran » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:19 pm

Hello morning mist,

This might be of interest from Bhikkhu Bodhi:

The First Precept in the Pali Canon
In Pali, the first precept is Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami; "I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life."

According to Theravadin teacher Bhikkhu Bodhi, the word pana refers to breathing, or any living being that has breath and consciousness. This includes people and all animal life, including insects, but not include plant life. The word atipata means "striking down." This refers to killing or destroying, but it can also mean injuring or torturing.

Theravada Buddhists say that a violation of the first precept involves five factors. First, there is a living being. Second, there is the perception that the being is a living being. Third, there is the volition thought of killing. Fourth, the killing is carried out. Fifth, the being dies.

It is important to understand that the violation of the precept arises in the mind, with the recognition of a living being and the willful thought of killing that being.
Also, ordering someone else to do the actual killing does not mitigate responsibility for it.

Further, a killing that is premeditated is a graver offense than a killing that is impulsive, such as in self-defense.
http://buddhism.about.com/od/theprecept ... recept.htm

There will be akusala kamma even if you kill defending yourself against an unexpected attack.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

NDat
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby NDat » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:44 pm

Look deeply into the Four Noble Truths. The answer is in there.

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:49 pm

One must wonder about performing an act of minor violence to prevent a killing. I recently stopped some maintenance workers outside my apartment from torturing and killing a groundhog with weed whackers. They had this poor beast cornered between some bushes and were laughing like hyenas. This involved me grabbing the implement from the hands of one of them and shoving him away quite forcefully. I then gave these young men what my grandfather would have called a "stern talking to." LOL I said, "I know you probably never learned this in that reform school you went to as kids, but animal cruelty is a felony. If I see you do anything like this again, I'll have you arrested. And fired." They left muttering something about it only being a groundhog and what's the big deal. I got a towel (so I wouldn't be mauled) and transported the terrified creature to the neighboring woods and told him to run and never come back. I hope at least one of the three animals got some part of the message. At any rate, I spent some time thinking (1) what in the blue hell is wrong with people and (2) am I going to blue hell for shoving this big bully. Gah, what a world we live in. Where's the next bus off of it? :toilet:

M4
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Dan74
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby Dan74 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:02 pm

For some balance (sorely needed in the current antimuslim climate):



_/|\_

morning mist
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby morning mist » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:12 pm

HI Dan ,

This topic is about Muslim and Thai Civilians rather than Tamils and Sri lankans. If you want we can discuss this in another thread on Sri Lankan & Tamils. Usually I wouldn't mind ,but it seems that some people prefer that it focuses on a specific issue only and no related topics at all. So I guess, that's the way is ? Btw, the video above doesn't show the whole story. Perhaps you haven't seen " Anuradhapura Massacre by LTTE - 146 Civilians dead on Wesak day"

with metta,

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Dan74
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby Dan74 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:28 pm

I am sorry that my post was not squarely on topic. You brought up an issue with the beaheadings and posted a video from a notorious anti-muslim site. To my way of seeing there is an unacceptable bias against muslims perpetrated at all levels and this needs to be challenged. That's all.

As to how to defend, I would say to be primarily guided by the Dhamma but of course be sensible and defend when necessary.
_/|\_

morning mist
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby morning mist » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:34 pm

with metta,

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:35 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Jason
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby Jason » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:07 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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morning mist
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby morning mist » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:07 am

Hi all ,

Thanks for sharing. I was wondering if anyone know the instruction for lay people about protecting oneself and other innocent people when it comes to violent attacks ?
with metta,

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Jason
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby Jason » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:18 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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chownah
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby chownah » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:33 am

It's all about intention....do you intend to do harm or do you intent to stop harm?
chownah

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DarwidHalim
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby DarwidHalim » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:48 pm

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

whynotme
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby whynotme » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Please stop following me

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Bodhisurfer
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Re: Is it against the dhamma to protect yourself and others ?

Postby Bodhisurfer » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:25 pm

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred" Dhp 3


violence is a very poor way of defending yourself. Far better to be building links with the broader muslim community and thus deprive the more extreme elements of their support

from the Metta Sutta A.N.11.16
....Monks, eleven advantages are to be expected from the release (deliverance) of heart by familiarizing oneself with thoughts of loving-kindness (metta), by the cultivation of loving-kindness, by constantly increasing these thoughts, by regarding loving-kindness as a vehicle (of expression), and also as something to be treasured, by living in conformity with these thoughts, by putting these ideas into practice, and by establishing them. What are the eleven?

1. "He sleeps in comfort. 2. He awakes in comfort. 3. He sees no evil dreams. 4. He is dear to human beings. 5. He is dear to non-human beings. 6. Devas (gods) protect him. 7. Fire, poison, and sword cannot touch him. 8. His mind can concentrate quickly. 9. His countenance is serene. 10. He dies without being confused in mind. 11. If he fails to attain arahantship (the highest sanctity) here and now, he will be reborn in the brahma-world.

"These eleven advantages, monks, are to be expected from the release of heart by familiarizing oneself with thoughts of loving-kindness, by cultivation of loving-kindness, by constantly increasing these thoughts, by regarding loving-kindness as a vehicle (of expression), and also as something to be treasured, by living in conformity with these thoughts, by putting these ideas into practice and by establishing them."

So said the Blessed One. Those monks rejoiced at the words of the Blessed One.

:buddha1:
Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya


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