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 Post subject: masters of the tradition
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:28 am 
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Namaste Dharma Wheel
I have been reading about Dzochen lately,even though i am not a buddhist i feel strongly to learn the practices of this tradition. :buddha2:
I visited the resoure section and saw the many sites for Dzogchen teachings. :coffee:
I was left wondering who are the current masters of this tradition that give dzogchen teachings immediately to there students. :reading:
I am familiar with Chogyal Namkai Norbu and would like to receive his teachings via his next WWT. :thumbsup:
But am also curious about other masters of this tradition who currently are giving dzogchen transmission. :yinyang:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:29 am 
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RikudouSennin wrote:
Namaste Dharma Wheel
I have been reading about Dzochen lately,even though i am not a buddhist i feel strongly to learn the practices of this tradition. :buddha2:
I visited the resoure section and saw the many sites for Dzogchen teachings. :coffee:
I was left wondering who are the current masters of this tradition that give dzogchen teachings immediately to there students. :reading:
I am familiar with Chogyal Namkai Norbu and would like to receive his teachings via his next WWT. :thumbsup:
But am also curious about other masters of this tradition who currently are giving dzogchen transmission. :yinyang:


Dzogchen is a part of both the Nyingma and the Bon tradition so most masters are found within these traditions but there are many exceptions.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:40 am 
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Aha
So if I go and ask a nyingma or bon master for direct introduction there is no previous requirements? i can just move forward with practices to realize dzogchen?when a person has received transmission he/she can acheive the final budhahood in one life correct?

Im taking this very serious, if there is a way for me to discover my true nature, in this lifetime, it is worth knowing and practicing immediately.
:yinyang:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:30 am 
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RikudouSennin wrote:
Aha
So if I go and ask a nyingma or bon master for direct introduction there is no previous requirements? i can just move forward with practices to realize dzogchen?when a person has received transmission he/she can acheive the final budhahood in one life correct?

Im taking this very serious, if there is a way for me to discover my true nature, in this lifetime, it is worth knowing and practicing immediately.
:yinyang:


:smile: No, what you do is that you search hi and low for a master that seems to be teaching directly to your heart, then you approach that master and honestly offer up your confusion and your frustration and express your wish to study and practice Dzogchen, then you do anything he suggest. This is the traditional style described in countless Dzogchen teachings and Tantras. These days you could also join the DC and follow ChNNR many webcasts but I would recommend that you go and participate in person as many times as you could also. Direct introduction isn't something you receive once and that is it, you have to engage your whole person in the teachings for them to have the desired effect. So even if DC is easy to access from your living room ultimately it also comes down to the same thing as the traditional style.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:08 am 
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RikudouSennin wrote:
Aha
So if I go and ask a nyingma or bon master for direct introduction there is no previous requirements? i can just move forward with practices to realize dzogchen?when a person has received transmission he/she can acheive the final budhahood in one life correct?

Im taking this very serious, if there is a way for me to discover my true nature, in this lifetime, it is worth knowing and practicing immediately.
:yinyang:

I'm not disagreeing with the advice Magnus has given you. It's correct and sensible advice. I will add however that just having an interest in Dzogchen shows that you have a connection with the teaching. What type of connection you have no one knows. So hopefully things will work out. Let us know.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:31 pm 
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I'm sure there's a good allegory somewhere but you could think of it in this way:

Either:
You already have a car. The Master gives you the fuel (DI) and driving lessons.

Or:
The Master thinks you don't already have a car and wants you to build one based on their 'Ngondro' design before they give you fuel and driving lessons.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:05 pm 
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or perhaps...

the master knows you have a car in the garage, but doesn't trust your hand-eye coordination or your ability to follow the rules of the road, and therefore insists you practice some in a simulator first.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
I'm sure there's a good allegory somewhere but you could think of it in this way:

Either:
You already have a car. The Master gives you the fuel (DI) and driving lessons.

Or:
The Master thinks you don't already have a car and wants you to build one based on their 'Ngondro' design before they give you fuel and driving lessons.


It is interesting how every thread have to be turned in to a "pro or con ngondro" thread these days, I will not reply on the subject since I recently written quite clearly what my view on this subject is. I just want you to notice that you are first and only poster in this thread that is talking about ngondro.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:23 pm 
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:namaste:
Once a person has received DI,is it common for people to stay in the natural state forever?or at least temporarily glimpses?
does dzogchen=anuttara samyak sambodhi or the final buddhahood?
will receiving dzogchen transmission make it easier in the next life to attain buddhahood if it cant be attained in this life?

sorry so many questions, im sure u all have seen these before.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:15 pm 
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RikudouSennin wrote:
Once a person has received DI,is it common for people to stay in the natural state forever?or at least temporarily glimpses?

Not at all. You have to do a lot of practice.

Quote:
does dzogchen=anuttara samyak sambodhi or the final buddhahood?

Yes.

Quote:
will receiving dzogchen transmission make it easier in the next life to attain buddhahood if it cant be attained in this life?

Yes.

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:18 pm 
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You can start by watching this video and you'll get some good information from Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.


There will be an open transmission from August 31 to September 6.
To watch you just need to access the following website:
http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/video.php

Closer to the event, the schedule will be released and probably posted here.

I suggest you try to read The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen prior to the webcast as it may help you understand what you'll be listening.

Since you aren't a Buddhist, Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's approach seems very well suited to your circumstances.
If you have any doubts, feel free to PM me.

All the best and welcome aboard.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
I'm sure there's a good allegory somewhere


Forgive me for being pedantic, but I think that you mean analogy (or perhaps metaphor) rather than allegory.

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Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
You can start by watching this video and you'll get some good information from Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.


There will be an open transmission from August 31 to September 6.
To watch you just need to access the following website:
http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/video.php

Closer to the event, the schedule will be released and probably posted here.

I suggest you try to read The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen prior to the webcast as it may help you understand what you'll be listening.

Since you aren't a Buddhist, Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's approach seems very well suited to your circumstances.
If you have any doubts, feel free to PM me.

All the best and welcome aboard.


:good: :twothumbsup:
I agree it seems Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's approach fits my situation.
I guess im not a buddhist because of all the sectarianism,the vast and endless amount of texts and just confusion on where to begin and how to complete, it seems Dzogchen is complete in itselfand more direct for me, it ets to the point.idk

I love the way Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche says 'your real nature"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:42 pm 
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RikudouSennin wrote:
Aha
So if I go and ask a nyingma or bon master for direct introduction there is no previous requirements? i can just move forward with practices to realize dzogchen?when a person has received transmission he/she can acheive the final budhahood in one life correct?

Im taking this very serious, if there is a way for me to discover my true nature, in this lifetime, it is worth knowing and practicing immediately.
:yinyang:


Not very likely. In that Dzogpachenpo is embedded within these two religions (Buddhist/Nyingma and Bon) most Lamas
will require at the very least familiarity with the terminology, principle and theory of the religion. You would also need
to have the experiential base to be able to make use of whatever words or symbols the lama may use. One usually
accomplishes this experiential base through what is called 'ngondro.' It is not always a requirement, or prerequisite,
but some sort of basic accumulation of practice (purification, merit and development of trust in the Lama) typically is.
One of my root lamas says of this accumulation of merit and wisdom that the only human he ever head of that realized
Dzogchen without it was Gasreb Dorje! Sure, you may have practiced a great deal in a past lifetime, but it is also true
that we all have obscurations and lack easy access to what wisdom we may have accumulated. (If that weren't the case,
our lives would look a lot different.) Well that's maybe long winded, but characterizes the probability of meeting a qualified
Dzogchen master who will simply teach 'anybody.' Rare.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:50 pm 
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RikudouSennin wrote:
:namaste:
Once a person has received DI,is it common for people to stay in the natural state forever?or at least temporarily glimpses?
does dzogchen=anuttara samyak sambodhi or the final buddhahood?
will receiving dzogchen transmission make it easier in the next life to attain buddhahood if it cant be attained in this life?

sorry so many questions, im sure u all have seen these before.


No. What is typical is you hear the introduction and its words.
Then you hear it again and it means something. Then you hear it again,
at it seems different from the last time, and then...

Well maybe one day, you're thunder-struck and you really see directly.
The next moment you're just like before. Then one day maybe months later,
you have a flash of insight, but you know what your target is. Them maybe months pass,
and you have another glimpse. Well you get the picture. Over time they appear more often.
Or ... you sit and practice 24/7 for a few months or years.

Sometimes a miracle happens.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:18 pm 
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ngodrup wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:
:namaste:
Once a person has received DI,is it common for people to stay in the natural state forever?or at least temporarily glimpses?
does dzogchen=anuttara samyak sambodhi or the final buddhahood?
will receiving dzogchen transmission make it easier in the next life to attain buddhahood if it cant be attained in this life?

sorry so many questions, im sure u all have seen these before.


No. What is typical is you hear the introduction and its words.
Then you hear it again and it means something. Then you hear it again,
at it seems different from the last time, and then...

Well maybe one day, you're thunder-struck and you really see directly.
The next moment you're just like before. Then one day maybe months later,
you have a flash of insight, but you know what your target is. Them maybe months pass,
and you have another glimpse. Well you get the picture. Over time they appear more often.
Or ... you sit and practice 24/7 for a few months or years.

Sometimes a miracle happens.

:thanks:

Am i correct in assuming the dzogchen state is not a type of nirvikalpa samadhi or samadhi state or transcendental state but our natural state of non dual awareness? so its not like some divine state where your lost to the world in meditation correct?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:00 am 
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Correct.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Correct. And it is very subtle, therefore easy to loose track of


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:56 pm 
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ngodrup wrote:
Correct. And it is very subtle, therefore easy to loose track of


so that dzogchen state is already there but it takes a master who knows they are in that state to introduce it to those who do not know?
how does it become a continuous state...practice right?
what is the diff between this state and smadhi states or jhnanas? sorry so curious. :alien:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Pristine awareness is not a state.
There is no witness.


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