Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogchen?

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:39 am

Adamantine wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Shemmy wrote:@ Sunn Samadhi: :good:

Outstanding posts, keep them coming, I too would like to know more.


Another anecdote, the guy who hosts most of the few Lamas who miraculously appear to teach here in Thailand is Sikh background. Last year while attending teachings at his house I mentioned to him some of the things in this thread. He said, Oh yes, absolutely, that was what he also had heard about Guru Nanak. He also commented that the Nyingma lama who was teaching us also remarked along these lines. There are pictures of Guru Nanak all around on the walls at the place where we were getting teachings, so no doubt the lama, who is quite academic and learned, commented. Our host also added that the lama mentioned there were some kind of shrines in Tibet dedicated to Guru Nanak. Not sure I got that right exactly, it was a year ago, but it seems pretty clear Guru Nanak was quite involved with Tibetan Buddhism at least for a time if not the rest of his life
I second what Virgo was saying that the Mul mantra is unambiguously describing an experience of God that doesn't seem to be different from the experience of all pervasive non-dual awareness.Don't really get what some are saying that it is reading into things or stretching things to speculate that Guru Nanak was influenced by Dzogchen. Seems pretty unambiguous.


I dont believe a word of this. :smile:


I can confirm that both the story about the Sikh man hosting the Vajrayana teachings in Thailand is true, as well as the fact that it is common among many Nyingma Lamas to say that Guru Rinpoche and Guru Nanak are the same, -different emanations but the same essence.

I wasn't doubting the veracity of the story Adamantine.
But people say all sorts of things don't they ?
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby muni » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:52 am

Inspired by Simon here I leave this: :smile:

Who are you ?

‘Eternal’ is your radiance
‘Singular’ is your fragrance
Wonderful is your elegance
Limitless is your effulgence
And you reside in all
But who you are?

Measureless is your extent
Inviolable your essence
Immeasurable your dole
Inimitable is your kingdom
And you live in all
Tell me who you are?

Unlimited your resource
Unhindered are your actions
Inviolate your infinity
Generous is your bounty
And you remain hidden in all
Why do not you tell, who you are?

The prop of all cosmos
The cause of every cause
The unchanted chant
The one uncaused-cause
And you remain mystery in all
Unveil and tell me, who you are?

Adored by every wisdom
Commanding every soul
Demolisher of every knave
The deity uninstalled
And you look through all
Baffled & befooled I ask
Who you are? Guru Nanak.


All appearances are an equality of appearance emptiness
Each and every sound is an equality of sound and emptiness
Feelings, all of these, are an equality of bliss and emptiness
So, rest then evenly in the equality, free of thoughts' complexity
Go about the city, and do it like this, be open, spacious and relaxed
Resting evenly in the equality free of all complexity. Dechen Rangdrol.


“You remain in the non-duality of the space you are seeing and the space you are being. You are just this space, this space is just you, and you just remain a little this way, relaxed. This is called Namkha Arte. When you apply this practice more and more, later when you integrate, everything becomes easier” Master Namkhay Norbu Rinpoche. http://dzogchen.ca/tag/chogyal-namkhai-norbu/
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby muni » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:20 am

What a suffering "the need to be”. :toilet:

Guru Nanak:
I yearn to be humble,
to share my earnings.
I wish to be selfish also,
to protect my equipoise.
I need to be truthful,
to be transparent.
I desire to be liar also ,
to keep up my emptiness.
I need to be talker,
to disseminate knowledge.
I need to be silent also,
to avoid spillage of peace.
I need to be ordered,
to grasp the things.
I want to be untamed also,
to protect my liberty.
I desire to be artful ,
to fulfill needs of mind.
I yearn to be artful also,
to quench the thirst of the spirit.
:namaste: :heart:
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:40 am

Muni I am sure you are a nice chap, but I have to say I seldom understand your posts.
Those quotes may form a coherent narrative to you, but to me they look pretty random.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby muni » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:00 pm

No problem.

"All appearances are an equality of appearance emptiness
Each and every sound is an equality of sound and emptiness"

Since they are percieved in different ways, words/phenomena are dependent, have no existence on themselves. Perciever neither.

:oops: Based on Guru Nanak teaching: http://www.sikh-relics.com/poems.html :namaste:
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:29 pm

Far as I can tell, Sikh Dharma has about as much in common to Dzogchen as Kabbalah or Sufi mysticism does (minus the unverified connections which have been mentioned, i'm interested in those, but frankly, they sound like hearsay at this point). That is to say, there is certainly language in common, and you can glean that mystics of different traditions seem to have similar experiences..but the actual connection still seems pretty tenuous.

Also I suspect that the notion of non dualism is not a particularly rare one as some think it is, but rather that we live in an epoch that has been defined by the success of a kind of dualistic monotheism, so it seems rarer to us than it actually is.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Adamantine » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:54 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote: (minus the unverified connections which have been mentioned, i'm interested in those, but frankly, they sound like hearsay at this point). .but the actual connection still seems pretty tenuous.

.


If tertons of Guru Rinpoche, who are considered to be emanations of Guru Rinpoche, say that Guru Nanak is a co-emanation of Guru Rinpoche, and if very highly revered Nyingma tulkus go on pilgrimage to the Golden Temple -- this does not qualify as hearsay in my book, or tenuous connections.

Now, if you question the validity of the terma tradition, and thus the wisdom of the tertons, then it is easy to ignore this. It is not easy for me to ignore, so I try to examine it in perspective: In general, it is a well known and accepted aspect of the siddhis associated with Bodhisattvas to be able to emanate countless forms according to the needs of beings, in a variety of ways, even as animals or inanimate objects. To think that a Bodhisattva would only appear in officially Buddhist clothing actually contradicts the Mahayana view. When a Bodhisattva emanates as a bridge, should we expect the bridge to be wearing saffron robes or striped shawls?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:33 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote: (minus the unverified connections which have been mentioned, i'm interested in those, but frankly, they sound like hearsay at this point). .but the actual connection still seems pretty tenuous.

.


If tertons of Guru Rinpoche, who are considered to be emanations of Guru Rinpoche, say that Guru Nanak is a co-emanation of Guru Rinpoche, and if very highly revered Nyingma tulkus go on pilgrimage to the Golden Temple -- this does not qualify as hearsay in my book, or tenuous connections.

Now, if you question the validity of the terma tradition, and thus the wisdom of the tertons, then it is easy to ignore this. It is not easy for me to ignore, so I try to examine it in perspective: In general, it is a well known and accepted aspect of the siddhis associated with Bodhisattvas to be able to emanate countless forms according to the needs of beings, in a variety of ways, even as animals or inanimate objects. To think that a Bodhisattva would only appear in officially Buddhist clothing actually contradicts the Mahayana view. When a Bodhisattva emanates as a bridge, should we expect the bridge to be wearing saffron robes or striped shawls?



Right, but all i've seen or heard so far is second hand accounts of this, if it were such a widespread belief i'd expect it to be seen more often, do you know of a book involving this idea, or at least makes mention of it? What about the other side, what do Sikhs think about Vajrayana, do they see Vajrayana as similar to Sikh Dharma, i'm certainly no expert but i've never seen such a thing. Second, how is the different from some Terton calling Christ a Bodhisattva or saying his death and resurrection was Tonglen or something similar? It isn't really, if you accept it simply based on the words of tertons, that's cool, I respect it.. but you can't act like the termas are universal set of standards, obviously it's quite a mixed bag.

It's a tricky area in a revealed religion to discuss this stuff, but personally I think some degree of skepticism is pretty reasonable, especially when people are (it seems) trying to make a sort of perennialist argument somewhere in there.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby TrimePema » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:35 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote: (minus the unverified connections which have been mentioned, i'm interested in those, but frankly, they sound like hearsay at this point). .but the actual connection still seems pretty tenuous.

.


If tertons of Guru Rinpoche, who are considered to be emanations of Guru Rinpoche, say that Guru Nanak is a co-emanation of Guru Rinpoche, and if very highly revered Nyingma tulkus go on pilgrimage to the Golden Temple -- this does not qualify as hearsay in my book, or tenuous connections.

Now, if you question the validity of the terma tradition, and thus the wisdom of the tertons, then it is easy to ignore this. It is not easy for me to ignore, so I try to examine it in perspective: In general, it is a well known and accepted aspect of the siddhis associated with Bodhisattvas to be able to emanate countless forms according to the needs of beings, in a variety of ways, even as animals or inanimate objects. To think that a Bodhisattva would only appear in officially Buddhist clothing actually contradicts the Mahayana view. When a Bodhisattva emanates as a bridge, should we expect the bridge to be wearing saffron robes or striped shawls?


Running with this viewpoint, one can conclude that all other spiritual traditions were in fact created by Bodhisattvas through expediency. This is not a ridiculous view considering that a Buddha like Vairocana actually emanated countless world systems in which all of these things happened, and each and every aspect of phenomena in those world systems is the play of Vairocana's expediency of dispelling ignorance of beings.
TrimePema
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:16 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:37 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote: (minus the unverified connections which have been mentioned, i'm interested in those, but frankly, they sound like hearsay at this point). .but the actual connection still seems pretty tenuous.

.


If tertons of Guru Rinpoche, who are considered to be emanations of Guru Rinpoche, say that Guru Nanak is a co-emanation of Guru Rinpoche, and if very highly revered Nyingma tulkus go on pilgrimage to the Golden Temple -- this does not qualify as hearsay in my book, or tenuous connections.

Now, if you question the validity of the terma tradition, and thus the wisdom of the tertons, then it is easy to ignore this. It is not easy for me to ignore, so I try to examine it in perspective: In general, it is a well known and accepted aspect of the siddhis associated with Bodhisattvas to be able to emanate countless forms according to the needs of beings, in a variety of ways, even as animals or inanimate objects. To think that a Bodhisattva would only appear in officially Buddhist clothing actually contradicts the Mahayana view. When a Bodhisattva emanates as a bridge, should we expect the bridge to be wearing saffron robes or striped shawls?


Running with this viewpoint, one can conclude that all other spiritual traditions were in fact created by Bodhisattvas through expediency. This is not a ridiculous view considering that a Buddha like Vairocana actually emanated countless world systems in which all of these things happened, and each and every aspect of phenomena in those world systems is the play of Vairocana's expediency of dispelling ignorance of beings.



It's not necessarily a ridiculous view I agree, but it makes the whole question in the thread moot, and means the answer is "yes" to all questions of whether religions are the same.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Adamantine » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:17 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Right, but all i've seen or heard so far is second hand accounts of this, if it were such a widespread belief i'd expect it to be seen more often, do you know of a book involving this idea, or at least makes mention of it? What about the other side, what do Sikhs think about Vajrayana, do they see Vajrayana as similar to Sikh Dharma, i'm certainly no expert but i've never seen such a thing. Second, how is the different from some Terton calling Christ a Bodhisattva or saying his death and resurrection was Tonglen or something similar? It isn't really, if you accept it simply based on the words of tertons, that's cool, I respect it.. but you can't act like the termas are universal set of standards, obviously it's quite a mixed bag.

It's a tricky area in a revealed religion to discuss this stuff, but personally I think some degree of skepticism is pretty reasonable, especially when people are (it seems) trying to make a sort of perennialist argument somewhere in there.


You're probably not going to find first hand accounts
from Tertons or tulkus on Dharmawheel. I trust books less than
the spoken words of my Gurus. I think it's evident from the fact a Sikh was hosting
Vajrayana teachings in his home in Thailand, and other personal accounts I am aware
of, that many Sikhs are quite open to Buddhadharma. This doesn't mean all will be. Wearing a turban
doesn't mean one truly understands Sikh dharma anymore than
wearing a robe means one truly understands Buddhadharma.

I've never heard of Tertons talking about Christ as a bodhisattva, have you?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:20 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Right, but all i've seen or heard so far is second hand accounts of this, if it were such a widespread belief i'd expect it to be seen more often, do you know of a book involving this idea, or at least makes mention of it? What about the other side, what do Sikhs think about Vajrayana, do they see Vajrayana as similar to Sikh Dharma, i'm certainly no expert but i've never seen such a thing. Second, how is the different from some Terton calling Christ a Bodhisattva or saying his death and resurrection was Tonglen or something similar? It isn't really, if you accept it simply based on the words of tertons, that's cool, I respect it.. but you can't act like the termas are universal set of standards, obviously it's quite a mixed bag.

It's a tricky area in a revealed religion to discuss this stuff, but personally I think some degree of skepticism is pretty reasonable, especially when people are (it seems) trying to make a sort of perennialist argument somewhere in there.


You're probably not going to find first hand accounts
from Tertons or tulkus on Dharmawheel. I trust books less than
the spoken words of my Gurus. I think it's evident from the fact a Sikh was hosting
Vajrayana teachings in his home in Thailand, and other personal accounts I am aware
of, that many Sikhs are quite open to Buddhadharma. This doesn't mean all will be. Wearing a turban
doesn't mean one truly understands Sikh dharma anymore than
wearing a robe means one truly understands Buddhadharma.

I've never heard of Tertons talking about Christ as a bodhisattva, have you?



Not offhand no, though i've heard it mentioned informally in a few teachings, iirc HHDL has even said something to that effect. I wasn't asking as a rhetorical thing to prove my point anyway though, I was honestly interested to know if you'd read anything in your years in Vajrayana about it. Also, Sikhs in my experience are pretty out-reachy with a large variety of folks..so them hosting a teacher is not a terribly convincing case to me..it is a pretty tolerant and ecumenical religion as world religions ago, in the little experience i've had with it.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Adamantine » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:31 pm

I've been to a number of teachings with HHDL, and when he is teaching dharma
he is quite precise and clearly differentiates views including those of other faiths.
When he is in public-speaker interfaith political mode he takes a different approach
for good reasons. Even so, and despite his admiration for practitioners of other faiths
and his personal accounts of christian statues manifesting some special signs: I've never
heard him propose Christ was a bodhisattva, in my memory. Many people though
exaggerate things he has said to suite their beliefs.

I consider requesting dharma teachings in one's home a bit more than "outreach".
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:39 pm

Adamantine wrote:I've been to a number of teachings with HHDL, and when he is teaching dharma
he is quite precise and clearly differentiates views including those of other faiths.
When he is in public-speaker interfaith political mode he takes a different approach
for good reasons. Even so, and despite his admiration for practitioners of other faiths
and his personal accounts of christian statues manifesting some special signs: I've never
heard him propose Christ was a bodhisattva, in my memory. Many people though
exaggerate things he has said to suite their beliefs.

I consider requesting dharma teachings in one's home a bit more than "outreach".



Maybe it is, it's hard to say without more context. There are events all the time where people invite teachers from other faiths to teach.

I am just saying, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, none of seems remotely convincing to me that Sikh Dharma ins heavily influenced by, or the same as Dzogchen - per the thread. Know what though? I have Sikh neighbors and should the opportunity even present itself, I will definitely be trying to ease into a conversation about this.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:54 am

May I suggest having a browse through the articles on this site - http://www.gurbani.org. There is a lot of Sikh-specific terminology in the articles and they have their own particular 'flavour', but there are still ideas that are common to other Indian spiritual philosophies, for example, http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart328.html. (Note the admonition against 'freeloading saints' :smile:
Learn to do good, refrain from evil, purify the mind ~ this is the teaching of the Buddhas
User avatar
Wayfarer
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby muni » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:16 am

I don't know how to quote here, okay easy way, not quoting:

Hello! :smile:

For me my opinions makes no any sense.
This said, my opinion is that a « Dzogchenpa » or a « Buddhist » in the bardo between life and death, will not have to say : oh Jesus, I need in the row of the Dzogchenpas, woopsee I almost was wrong , this is the Sikh row - the Christian row... ! As long as mind percieves these phenomena as being real on their own and percieves them as other, mind can use Buddhadharma, mind can use pointing out by an Awaken Compassionate Master. :buddha1:

I am sure ( sorry, even worse than an opinion ) that the Dzogchenpa gets one ticket back to Samsara by percieving such wrong-right phenomena and that is what makes me sad : the grasping to identity by Buddhadharma. Its like this is now our cloth and we cannot without identity or our ego loses ground. This happens when we cling to the pointing finger and exclude so percieved others with their wrong pointing fingers. This is samsara.

It is not about comparing, rather I deeply respect whatever can inspire to make perception clear and so compassionate, by seeing the delusions of minds' wall building habits .

At least indeed Guru Nanak is respected and His Holiness Dalai Lama (His Holiness is Dzogchenpa-Buddhist) is been given the Guru Nanak interfaith price for peace. If we can take the example of His Holiness, we will not run astray.

Homage, bowing to the Masters showing there is no wall and no door to keep our being closed. :heart:

o o
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Shemmy » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:31 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Shemmy wrote:@ Sunn Samadhi: :good:

Outstanding posts, keep them coming, I too would like to know more.


Another anecdote, the guy who hosts most of the few Lamas who miraculously appear to teach here in Thailand is Sikh background. Last year while attending teachings at his house I mentioned to him some of the things in this thread. He said, Oh yes, absolutely, that was what he also had heard about Guru Nanak. He also commented that the Nyingma lama who was teaching us also remarked along these lines. There are pictures of Guru Nanak all around on the walls at the place where we were getting teachings, so no doubt the lama, who is quite academic and learned, commented. Our host also added that the lama mentioned there were some kind of shrines in Tibet dedicated to Guru Nanak. Not sure I got that right exactly, it was a year ago, but it seems pretty clear Guru Nanak was quite involved with Tibetan Buddhism at least for a time if not the rest of his life
I second what Virgo was saying that the Mul mantra is unambiguously describing an experience of God that doesn't seem to be different from the experience of all pervasive non-dual awareness.Don't really get what some are saying that it is reading into things or stretching things to speculate that Guru Nanak was influenced by Dzogchen. Seems pretty unambiguous.


I dont believe a word of this. :smile:


What specifically is so hard to believe?
User avatar
Shemmy
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:48 pm
Location: Kalasindhu, Thailand

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby Adamantine » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:02 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:

Maybe it is, it's hard to say without more context. There are events all the time where people invite teachers from other faiths to teach.

I am just saying, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, none of seems remotely convincing to me that Sikh Dharma ins heavily influenced by, or the same as Dzogchen - per the thread. Know what though? I have Sikh neighbors and should the opportunity even present itself, I will definitely be trying to ease into a conversation about this.


This was not an interfaith event: this was a regular sangha that arose in response to a couple of Tibetan Lamas who began giving teachings in Thailand. One of them is Lama Rinchen, whose mother recently passed into Parinirvana and remained in Tukdam for about three weeks straight. It appeared evident from my first-hand confirmation that the Sikh gentleman was sincerely studying, not outreaching for any reason. I am confused because it seems clear enough that this is a dharma student, I am not sure why you find it difficult to accept.

I'm not sure why despite the content of SunnSamadh's posts, and the accounts of revered Nyingma Lamas stating that Guru Nanak is interrelated with Guru Rinpoche, and the well documented history of Guru Nanak traveling in Tibet for a number of years, you still don't see anything remotely convincing.

I would expect anyone reading this thread to at least find the evidence remotely convincing. . .

And there is also the case of Chagdud Tulku: I seem to recall that according to his autobiography his mother perhaps had a vision of a Sikh man entering her womb when he was conceived.. so there is some speculation he emanated as a Sikh between Chagdud incarnations. But I would need to double-check that, I am missing my copy of Lord of the Dance... and can't recall whom I lent it to. If anyone else can look into it and comment?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby dzogchungpa » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:15 pm

Adamantine wrote:And there is also the case of Chagdud Tulku: I seem to recall that according to his autobiography his mother perhaps had a vision of a Sikh man entering her womb when he was conceived.. so there is some speculation he emanated as a Sikh between Chagdud incarnations. But I would need to double-check that, I am missing my copy of Lord of the Dance... and can't recall whom I lent it to. If anyone else can look into it and comment?

That story is about the birth of his son, Jigme.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
User avatar
dzogchungpa
 
Posts: 2168
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Postby muni » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:24 am

I think so we can only look into own mind. Whether Guru Nanak is an inspiring light or seen as an obstacle among the many by our mind. But slowly I begin to believe that it is my own confused untamed mind, which is the only obstacle.
The Buddhas' teachings are all guiding to liberation and so clinging mind loses its power. That is what it is about for me. :buddha1:

Nyingmapas are putting hands together.
There are often teaching lights passing and not seen but I guess that the Awaken Ones are not missing ‘them’. Whether Guru Nanak is more Sikh or more Buddhist is not so helpful seen by analytical discernment. There is said that Wise can learn from all by wisdom discernment since sky is labelless. I think we should be totally lost in such. :alien:

H H Dalai Lama should have said the Sikh people: "Guru Nanak due to his unique lifestyle, is the brightest star amongst the most brilliant ones in the sky."
Whether he said that or not, I have no doubt His Holiness’ respect is genuine and based on wisdom. He also called the Sikh religion nonsectarian.

I read about religion yesterday ( Beyond religion) and the problem to look to other label, other named religions-boxes should have its basis in the west by religious surpression and not religion leading to liberation. And maybe therefore the practicioners react as wrong as soon as the liberating teachings lights of the Buddha „are in some way to see elswere“ or seen as an obstacle or so for the teachings of the Buddha. At least that I can understand.

:namaste:
Last edited by muni on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

PreviousNext

Return to Dzogchen

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Zeno and 17 guests

>