Dharma Wheel

Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however. And no profundity.

oldbob wrote:

Simon E. wrote:I have no opinion of Dzogchen. I have none now. I think it unlikely that I will have an opinion of Dzogchen when my time comes to die.
There is no " My Dzogchen "..so the matter of whose Dzogchen is better than whose does not arise.

In 1963 I ran away from home, packing food and clothes in a guitar case and traveled by bus to the Newport Folk Festival where I snuck in back stage to meet Dlyan and Bayez.

Yes, how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky ?
Yes, how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry ?
Yes, how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died ?
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

Judy Collins took off all her clothes and jumped into the swimming pool at the motel - everyone else followed after her - NAKED!

ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus

Simon E. wrote:Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however.

The fact that you disagree with a lot of us, without exactly explaining why, tells a different tale.

/magnus

heart wrote:
ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus

Bob has had a very interesting life. He lived in India for many years.

Sign me up for advance copies of Bob's book, too.
But, no pictures, m'kay?

Malcolm wrote:

heart wrote:
ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus

Bob has had a very interesting life. He lived in India for many years.

So does everyone know Bob except me?

Pero wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

heart wrote:
ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus

Bob has had a very interesting life. He lived in India for many years.

So does everyone know Bob except me?

I don't know Bob either... but apparently, I should.

Pero wrote: So does everyone know Bob except me?

I don't know him

/magnus

heart wrote:

Simon E. wrote:Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however.

The fact that you disagree with a lot of us, without exactly explaining why, tells a different tale.

/magnus

On the contrary I dont disagree at all. I think that Buddhism is a perfectly proper way to approach Dzogchen.
I dont think it is the only way.
Nor do I think it essential.
But that is not my opinion .
Its what I have been taught by ChNNN. Its his opinion. My opinion is literally of no consequence.

Simon E. wrote:

heart wrote:

Simon E. wrote:Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however.

The fact that you disagree with a lot of us, without exactly explaining why, tells a different tale.

/magnus

On the contrary I dont disagree at all. I think that Buddhism is a perfectly proper way to approach Dzogchen.
I dont think it is the only way.
Nor do I think it essential.
But that is not my opinion .
Its what I have been taught by ChNNN. Its his opinion. My opinion is literally of no consequence.

ChNNR is not posting here. If you want to clarify his opinion I think at least a substantial quote is necessary. Even then we might experience and understand his teaching in various ways. My root Guru is CNR but I try to avoid to drag him in to the discussions here because I can't speak for him. What I express here is my understanding of his teachings not is actual teachings. The argument "this is not my opinion it is my Gurus" is an incredibly odd way to discuss Dharma that happens quite often here in the Dzogchen subforum and not so much elsewhere.Why is this Simon?

/magnus

Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

Simon E. wrote:Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.

I don't think that this is what he means simon. he is simply expressing his pov, and contradicting yours. i don't get any sense
of him making it personal at all.

Off Topic Posts Removed

Simon E. wrote:Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

No, don't be ridiculous. I certainly hope you keep posting. I said exactly the same things to others and I even suggested they added it to the ToS, it is not personal.

/magnus

heart wrote:

Simon E. wrote:Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

No, don't be ridiculous. I certainly hope you keep posting. I said exactly the same things to others and I even suggested they added it to the ToS, it is not personal.

/magnus

Dont kid yourself, Of course its personal.
I will take full responsibility for my part in the response to my posts.
It was unwise and possibly premature by a few years.
It did not occur to me ( naively ) that by responding to Macolm's account of his journey with empathy that the reaction would be defensiveness,fear, and dismissiveness.
But actually that should have been predictable..after all you do not know me.
Although I suspect that Silent Bob is someone I knew while we were both students of CTR.
I received teachings from the 16th Karmapa.
I knew Ole before he was Lama Ole.
I also recieved teachings from Kalu Rinpoche and Chime Yongden Rinpoche... before becoming a student of Thrangu Rinpoche.
Whose retreats in Nepal I attended.
Between that time and becoming a student of ChNNN I had grown weary of western Buddhists.
I looked around and saw few of them walking the talk.
Most of the time many of them were notable for a lack of basic human kindness and decency.
They were filled with opinion and a need for attention.
Many of them, a much higher proportion than the general public, were depressed or suffered from clinical anxiety. ( I am a psychotherapist )
Their Buddhism may not in all cases have been the cause of their clinical condition, but it sure as hell wasn't helping it.
Instead it was making solid their neurosis and grasping after an identity.
In short ,when I read the post which led to Namdrol becoming Malcolm I was moved by it, and felt the need against my own better judgement to respond.
This was a mistake. This online community has formed over several years and has well established behaviors. The mores are embedded.
Unless one has the kind of clout that Macolm clearly has, any questioning of those mores are seen as a threat and the result is aggression.
Self appointed guardians of the Dharma take up their cudgels,
So as I said...a mistake.
Good will to all of good will.
Any contact I have in future with this forum will be of a " read only " kind.

Hello Simon,
You're free of your choice. I did appreciate your posts, with few of them you became a part of the gang. It does not mean I do always agree with what you say, but you're not off the road. Hope you'll continue to communicate with us ...

Sönam

Simon E. wrote:

heart wrote:

Simon E. wrote:Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

No, don't be ridiculous. I certainly hope you keep posting. I said exactly the same things to others and I even suggested they added it to the ToS, it is not personal.

/magnus

Dont kid yourself, Of course its personal.
I will take full responsibility for my part in the response to my posts.
It was unwise and possibly premature by a few years.
It did not occur to me ( naively ) that by responding to Macolm's account of his journey with empathy that the reaction would be defensiveness,fear, and dismissiveness.
But actually that should have been predictable..after all you do not know me.
Although I suspect that Silent Bob is someone I knew while we were both students of CTR.
I received teachings from the 16th Karmapa.
I knew Ole before he was Lama Ole.
I also recieved teachings from Kalu Rinpoche and Chime Yongden Rinpoche... before becoming a student of Thrangu Rinpoche.
Whose retreats in Nepal I attended.
Between that time and becoming a student of ChNNN I had grown weary of western Buddhists.
I looked around and saw few of them walking the talk.
Most of the time many of them were notable for a lack of basic human kindness and decency.
They were filled with opinion and a need for attention.
Many of them, a much higher proportion than the general public, were depressed or suffered from clinical anxiety. ( I am a psychotherapist )
Their Buddhism may not in all cases have been the cause of their clinical condition, but it sure as hell wasn't helping it.
Instead it was making solid their neurosis and grasping after an identity.
In short ,when I read the post which led to Namdrol becoming Malcolm I was moved by it, and felt the need against my own better judgement to respond.
This was a mistake. This online community has formed over several years and has well established behaviors. The mores are embedded.
Unless one has the kind of clout that Macolm clearly has, any questioning of those mores are seen as a threat and the result is aggression.
Self appointed guardians of the Dharma take up their cudgels,
So as I said...a mistake.
Good will to all of good will.
Any contact I have in future with this forum will be of a " read only " kind.

I share a rather similar experience, with different teachers though, and can perfectly understand what you're saying.

Simon E. wrote:Between that time and becoming a student of ChNNN I had grown weary of western Buddhists.
I looked around and saw few of them walking the talk.
Most of the time many of them were notable for a lack of basic human kindness and decency.
They were filled with opinion and a need for attention.
Many of them, a much higher proportion than the general public, were depressed or suffered from clinical anxiety. ( I am a psychotherapist )
Their Buddhism may not in all cases have been the cause of their clinical condition, but it sure as hell wasn't helping it.
Instead it was making solid their neurosis and grasping after an identity.

I've seen this myself: in others, of course, but also in myself sometimes. I think we need to reflect on this with care.

Any contact I have in future with this forum will be of a " read only " kind.

Do what you need to do, but sadly, the forum is the less for it.

Do what you need to do, but sadly, the forum is the less for it.

I totally agree.