Dzogchen and Bon

[dakini_boi]

Prior to the arrival of Buddhism in Tibet, was Dzogchen widely practiced in Bon? I'm wondering, because if Tibet already had Dzogchen, which we consider as the pinnacle of Buddha Dharma, then Padmasambhava's life work of overcoming demons and spreading dharma in Tibet loses some of its significance, doesn't it?

[Lhug-Pa]

Not if many Böns had become corrupt back then, as is said to have happened.

From what I've learned there are basically three types of Bön:

"Black" Bön

"White" Bön

Yungdrung Bön

"Black" Bön is apparently Shamanism more or less devoid of the pure Dzogchen Transmission of Yungdrung Bön.

"White" Bön is apparently Bön mixed with Buddhism mainly for the purpose of avoiding persecution.

Yungdrung Bön is Eternal Bön which has the pure Dzogchen Transmission, such as the Zhang Zhung Nyengyud.

It would have been "Black Bön" that would have supposedly fallen into some nasty sorts of practices, corruption, etc.

But I believe that all three forms of Bön have Shamanistic practices.

It seems that these days most Bönpo's teachings are an integration of "White Bön" and Yungdrung Bön.

This is my very limited understanding. I'm sure that Malcolm and Kalden Yungdrung could correct me.

[Malcolm]

If you want to understand the situation of pre-Buddhist bon than read Drung Deu and Bon by ChNN.

Not if many Böns had become corrupt back then.

From what I've learned there are basically three types of Bön:

"Black" Bön

"White" Bön

Yungdrung Bön

"Black" Bön is apparently Shamanism more or less devoid of the Dzogchen of Yungdrung Bön.

"White" Bön is apparently Bön mixed with Buddhism mainly for the purpose of avoiding persecution.

Yungdrung Bön is Eternal Bön which has the pure Dzogchen Transmission, such as the Zhang Zhung Nyengyud.

It would have been "Black Bön" that would have fallen into some nasty sorts of practices, corruption, etc.

But I believe that all three forms of Bön have Shamanistic practices.

It seems that these days most Bönpo's teachings are a mixture of White Bön and Yungdrung Bön.

[dakini_boi]

cool, thank you guys

[kalden yungdrung]

Not if many Böns had become corrupt back then, as is said to have happened.

From what I've learned there are basically three types of Bön:

"Black" Bön

"White" Bön

Yungdrung Bön

"Black" Bön is apparently Shamanism more or less devoid of the pure Dzogchen Transmission of Yungdrung Bön.

"White" Bön is apparently Bön mixed with Buddhism mainly for the purpose of avoiding persecution.

Yungdrung Bön is Eternal Bön which has the pure Dzogchen Transmission, such as the Zhang Zhung Nyengyud.

It would have been "Black Bön" that would have supposedly fallen into some nasty sorts of practices, corruption, etc.

But I believe that all three forms of Bön have Shamanistic practices.

It seems that these days most Bönpo's teachings are an integration of "White Bön" and Yungdrung Bön.

This is my very limited understanding. I'm sure that Malcolm and Kalden Yungdrung could correct me.

Tashi delek,

Buddha Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche Tönpa Shenrab taught his doctrines in 2 systems:

The first classification is called Thegpa Rimgu`i Bön (Theg-pa rim-dgu`i bon), the “Bön of 9 Successive Stages” or, as it is more commonly known, the “9 Ways of Bon,” of which there are 3 versions:

a) the Lhoter (lho-gter) or “Southern Treasure,”
b) the Jangter (byang-gter) or “Northern Treasure”
c) the Uter (dBu-gter) or “Central Treasure”.

But better explanation is done here:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=2177


Chab-kar (Chab-dkar), the “White Waters”, contains spells and higher esoteric Tantric practices.
2. Chab-nag (Chab-nag), the “Black Waters”, consists of various rituals (healing, purificatory, magical, prognosticatory, divinatory, funerary, and ransom rituals).

So black waters is misunderstood as black magic and bad but in reality it is for humans a very handy help against attacks on the La / human soul.

Then Bon disapaered nearly because of persecution due to the murder of the last Zhang Zhung king. Ok karma is also the Chinese ocupation in Tibet but all in all very sad for the innocent people.

Mutsog Marro
KY