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 Post subject: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:37 am 
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Hi,

I have been looking into Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's SMS program. I have found the documents here - http://www.dzogchen.it/dzogchen/teachings/santi-maha-sangha - but still am vague on some of the details. My main question is, "how much of the SMS program can be done remotely?" Less importantly, how much time does one need to dedicate to this program?

Also, it would be nice to hear some feedback from anyone here on DharmaWheel who has been in or completed the program. I know there are many of ChNNR's students here, so I assume at least a few people have some experience.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Hi tom,

I recommend emailing Jim Valby as he will provide all the answers to your questions. He answered the same questions I asked that you are also curious about.

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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:53 pm 
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tomamundsen wrote:
Hi,

I have been looking into Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's SMS program. I have found the documents here - http://www.dzogchen.it/dzogchen/teachings/santi-maha-sangha - but still am vague on some of the details. My main question is, "how much of the SMS program can be done remotely?" Less importantly, how much time does one need to dedicate to this program?

Also, it would be nice to hear some feedback from anyone here on DharmaWheel who has been in or completed the program. I know there are many of ChNNR's students here, so I assume at least a few people have some experience.

Thanks


I only know about "The Precious Vase" and I haven't follow the SMS program, but I been interested. Yes, you can do it at home, but you will for sure need help with some instructions so DC programs seems unavoidable.I counted together the minimum number of days of practice for "The Precious Vase" was something like six months full time practice, but you can split that up i daily sessions. If you do a session a day it will take you a few years getting trough it. "The Precious Vase" is quite wonderful and inspiring. If you buy it you can see yourself.

/magnus

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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:31 pm 
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heart wrote:
I counted together the minimum number of days of practice for "The Precious Vase" was something like six months full time practice, but you can split that up i daily sessions. If you do a session a day it will take you a few years getting trough it.


A few years only for the Base practices? Let's see.

Taking the shortest route - for those with the lowest capacity - the Base part of SMS would take 79 days excluding Three Roots (to which we ought to devote 21 days in retreat). Each day counts as four Thuns. Accordingly, if you do one Thun* a day, it would take you 316 days (plus the aforementioned 21-day retreat - or its non-retreat equivalent, which is to say 300,000 recitations).

A year then, give or take a month or so.

Also, please remember that you can take the Base exam without having completed all the practices.

--

* the Thun time unit is a hotly debated issue. There are people who claim that a Thun should last no less than 210 minutes and those who argue that 1 hour is quite enough - as well as the champions of the middle position, according to whom a Thun is either 90 or 120 minutes long. :stirthepot:

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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:54 pm 
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treehuggingoctopus wrote:
* the Thun time unit is a hotly debated issue. There are people who claim that a Thun should last no less than 210 minutes and those who argue that 1 hour is quite enough - as well as the champions of the middle position, according to whom a Thun is either 90 or 120 minutes long. :stirthepot:


I always wondered about that...

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Quote:
* the Thun time unit is a hotly debated issue. There are people who claim that a Thun should last no less than 210 minutes and those who argue that 1 hour is quite enough - as well as the champions of the middle position, according to whom a Thun is either 90 or 120 minutes long. :stirthepot:

As far as I know, in DC a tun is two hours minimum. :smile:

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
heart wrote:
I counted together the minimum number of days of practice for "The Precious Vase" was something like six months full time practice, but you can split that up i daily sessions. If you do a session a day it will take you a few years getting trough it.


A few years only for the Base practices? Let's see.

Taking the shortest route - for those with the lowest capacity - the Base part of SMS would take 79 days excluding Three Roots (to which we ought to devote 21 days in retreat). Each day counts as four Thuns. Accordingly, if you do one Thun* a day, it would take you 316 days (plus the aforementioned 21-day retreat - or its non-retreat equivalent, which is to say 300,000 recitations).

Not sure if you already accounted for it, so just in case, for the three roots you have to do three weeks or 300 000 recitations on each of them, not three weeks altogether. Oh but you don't have to complete the three roots till you want to take the 3rd level exam (the rest has to be completed before taking 1st level exam).

Also, this all is assuming that you're totally into the SMS base practices and nothing else and spending at least two hours a day doing it.

As for how much SMS program can be done remotely... IMO, it depends totally on the person. If you understand most things from just reading the PV then maybe there's no need to go to courses. Except for kumbhaka (I am like a broken record I guess hehe) which you need for 7th lojong. Also if you don't understand you can get some CD's of courses on the Base too. I got two CD's from when Jim Valby did a couple weeks course in Merigar on the Base and I recommend it. Though maybe you'll have to write SSI about it, not sure if it's in the store. And you can also email your questions to the SMS teachers. Of course if you have the opportunities and inclination you can attend courses, I just personally don't think it's a must.

edit: I should add however, that I'm not into doing SMS so take the above with a grain of salt, it is just my perception. :smile:

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Pero wrote:
As far as I know, in DC a tun is two hours minimum. :smile:


Is two hours a Long Thun?

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche has said that a Short Tun is a minimum of half an hour, right?

Is a Medium Thun one hour minimum then?


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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Lhug-Pa wrote:
Pero wrote:
As far as I know, in DC a tun is two hours minimum. :smile:


Is two hours a Long Thun?


No, thun simply means a period of formal practice, it doesn't have to be the set of practices compiled by Rinpoche called "Long Thun", it can be Tara, shinay, rushen or anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: SMS Program
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Thanks for explaining Kilaya and Pero.

Then obviously a Thun being two hours minimum specifically applies to working on completing the Santi Maha Sangha program.

And regarding the solitary practice of a Short, Medium, or Long Tun as outlined in the Thun book, we just practice them at our own pace and it doesn't matter how long it takes to complete them.


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