Protectors in DC question

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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat May 05, 2012 10:07 pm

Of course transforming our meal into a Ganapuja with the short Mantras and leaving some remainder could be sufficient in itself for appreciating the Guardians and for purification (and for helping animals to achieve Liberation from samsara), however the questions in my last few posts here are more in regard to contacting the Guardians in a seemingly more concrete way if we need to fix some mistakes that we might have made:



Lhug-Pa wrote:For contacting the Guardians, is any (Wrathful) Deity we've received transmission for good for contacting the Guardians?

Which also brings us back to the question:

"In the Dzogchen Community, can Naggon or Ngagkong be done just by itself, with wine and meat offerings?

"(For example if we currently don't have sufficient time for Tun's or Ganapuja's)"

Transforming with the Seed-Syllable and doing Ngagkong with empowered wine & meat offerings, even without a formal Tun or Ganapuja, seems to be a good simple way to contact the Guardians if we've made mistakes; that is if this is not seen as inventing something (which we should all know is not a good thing to do).

Keeping in mind that even if we don't do entire Thun's, it's best to still do the Nine-Purification-Breathings and Guru Yoga before any practice or set of practices.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 06, 2012 12:09 am

On second thought, if we do Guru Yoga with Rinpoche, that alone could purify previous mistakes; so after having practiced Guru Yoga with Rinpoche, I have no reason to believe that doing as Namdrol has suggested in this thread wouldn't be sufficient for Guardian offerings (although if we have more time, it's always good to do more secondary practices such as longer Tuns, longer Ganapujas, Long-Life practices, Chod, etc.).
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 06, 2012 12:12 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:
[b]What is the best way to contact the Guardians without transforming...



One cannot. To contact guardians, one must always be in a transformation.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 06, 2012 12:21 am

Ah I see, thanks. So no matter how long or short a Ganapuja we perform (that is at least if Guardians are in any way involved), we should always transform regardless.

And it is fine, during silent prayer time at the dinner table for example, to transform with a mentally recited Seed-Syllable for turning our meal into a Ganapuja with dedicating offering to Guardians, right?

(And empowering, eating, and making our overall-intentions & dedicating-of-the-remains mentally; all with the presence of the Syllables of the Three Vajras).

As in if others are present, to do everything, as Rinpoche says, without making a scene.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 06, 2012 12:39 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:Ah I see, thanks. So no matter how long or short a Ganapuja we perform (that is at least if Guardians are in any way involved), we should always transform regardless.
.



When you do with meal, there is no need to transform. In this case mainly you are making an offering to yourself.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Dronma » Sun May 06, 2012 1:01 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:And it is fine, during silent prayer time at the dinner table for example, to transform with a mentally recited Seed-Syllable for turning our meal into a Ganapuja with dedicating offering to Guardians, right?
As in if others are present, to do everything, as Rinpoche says, without making a scene.


Rinpoche has told many times that for offering our daily meals is enough to spell only OM A HUM. If we cannot spell, then say it under breathing is always sufficient.

About contacting the Guardians through Tuns and Ganapujas, there is no reason to complicate things nor creating our own inventions in practice.
There is always invocation to the Guardians even in the Short Tun. It is the Dogpa for dispelling negativity!
Since we have Short, Medium, Long Tuns and Simple, Short, Medium, Long Ganapujas, there is always a complete practice for the time we have occasionally available.
Tuns and Ganapujas are Anuyoga methods, so it is better not to change anything! :namaste:
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 06, 2012 1:21 am

Thank you Namdrol and Dronma. :anjali:
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Jinzang » Sun May 06, 2012 1:34 am

And, you should never be afraid to do guardian practice. They are guardians after all. They will never harm you.


I have been told that although the protectors are enlightened beings and would not harm practitioners, that they have oath bound beings in their retinue who are unenlightened and sometimes not very patient with lazy, careless, and conceited practitioners.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Dronma » Sun May 06, 2012 2:01 am

Jinzang wrote:
And, you should never be afraid to do guardian practice. They are guardians after all. They will never harm you.


I have been told that although the protectors are enlightened beings and would not harm practitioners, that they have oath bound beings in their retinue who are unenlightened and sometimes not very patient with lazy, careless, and conceited practitioners.


Yes, true. But these are the retinue of the main Guardians who are always protecting the teachings and samayas! When it is necessary they manifest their Enlightened Compassion through Wrathful means. :D
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 06, 2012 2:57 am

Jinzang wrote:
And, you should never be afraid to do guardian practice. They are guardians after all. They will never harm you.


I have been told that although the protectors are enlightened beings and would not harm practitioners, that they have oath bound beings in their retinue who are unenlightened and sometimes not very patient with lazy, careless, and conceited practitioners.


More fear mongering.

N
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Sönam » Sun May 06, 2012 8:15 am

Tibetan Buddhism cultural remainder

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby heart » Sun May 06, 2012 8:30 am

Jinzang wrote:
And, you should never be afraid to do guardian practice. They are guardians after all. They will never harm you.


I have been told that although the protectors are enlightened beings and would not harm practitioners, that they have oath bound beings in their retinue who are unenlightened and sometimes not very patient with lazy, careless, and conceited practitioners.


The question is if a biscuit will pacify them if you are a lazy, careless, and conceited practitioner? I think not.
My Guru don't make a big deal of the protector except when he teach Dzogchen he always do the torma offering to the Dzogchen protectors. Personally I always do the torma offerings to the protectors, but not out of fear. I think that the pure transmission of Dzogchen is hanging by a thin thread these days and if I can do anything to support it, apart from doing the practice itself, it is well worth the time it takes.

/magnus
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Kilaya. » Sun May 06, 2012 10:29 am

Dronma wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:And it is fine, during silent prayer time at the dinner table for example, to transform with a mentally recited Seed-Syllable for turning our meal into a Ganapuja with dedicating offering to Guardians, right?
As in if others are present, to do everything, as Rinpoche says, without making a scene.


Rinpoche has told many times that for offering our daily meals is enough to spell only OM A HUM. If we cannot spell, then say it under breathing is always sufficient.

About contacting the Guardians through Tuns and Ganapujas, there is no reason to complicate things nor creating our own inventions in practice.
There is always invocation to the Guardians even in the Short Tun. It is the Dogpa for dispelling negativity!
Since we have Short, Medium, Long Tuns and Simple, Short, Medium, Long Ganapujas, there is always a complete practice for the time we have occasionally available.
Tuns and Ganapujas are Anuyoga methods, so it is better not to change anything! :namaste:


I usually add the Naggong to the Short Thun, I hope this little invention is not that bad. :smile:
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 06, 2012 1:39 pm

Kilaya. wrote:I usually add the Naggong to the Short Thun, I hope this little invention is not that bad. :smile:


It's not your invention. DC practices are quite modular.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby alpha » Sun May 06, 2012 1:58 pm

Dronma wrote:[color=#000080]Rinpoche has told many times that for offering our daily meals is enough to spell only OM A HUM. If we cannot spell, then say it under breathing is always sufficient.



to my knowledge there is one more line to add after om ah hung.om ah hung blesses the food.and after that we enjoy our meal while in a state of integration.
AOM
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby pemachophel » Sun May 06, 2012 6:01 pm

My Root Guru and His wife always used to argue over the necessity of Protector prayers and offerings. He was primarily a Dzogchenpa Who took the POV that, as long as He was in the state or otherwise practicing the Dharma properly, the Protectors would automatically do everything They are entrusted to do. His wife, more a Mahayoga specialist, would always want to do long Protector prayers at drupchods and other such opportunities. Her POV was two-fold: 1) To confess and repair any broken samaya so as not to experience the chastisement of the Protectors, and 2) to request the Protectors to avert disasters and fix negative things in this world of apparent exitence. She would say, "I don't have the power to make this or that change in the world, but the Protectors do." (BTW, She is an extremely powerful yogini for whom CNNR once wrote a shabten acknowledging that fact.) Sometimes Their arguments occurred right during the ceremonies. My Teacher would often nudge His wife to wrap up it with the Protector prayers -- enough already. She would then scold Him and keep on banging the drum and saying more and more prayers with visibly intense concentration and conviction. Eventually He would put down His dorje and bell and simply sit in meditation until after the prayers were over. I'm not telling this story out of a desire to criticize or gossip about either my Teacher or His wife. To me this story is more about valid differences of opinion about practice. Each practitioner has his or her own beliefs, style, and habits and is at their own stage.

As an example of the second kind of activity alluded to above by my Teacher's wife, for a year, Lama Dawa was having premonitions/dreams of a major earthquake in March. After a medium quake in Mexico a couple of hundred miles from where He was teaching but where He felt the tremor, He put out the word to His sangha to do a certain Guru Rinpoche practice invoking specific Protectors and Lords of the Earth to stabilize the elements of earth and water and prevent earthquakes. AFAIK, there was no major earthquake with catastrophic loss of life during March. For me, this was an example of the application of skillful means as the occasion demanded prompted by great compassion for sentient beings. (As a humorous aside, I had to go to Berkeley, CA during March to attend a teaching with another Lama. Berkeley/SF sitting on the San Andreas fault as they do, you can bet I put in over-time on this practice while I was there.)

Personally, when I do Protector practices (which I do most afternoons), I do so primarily for this second purpose of working for the sake of suffering sentient beings, invoking Them to do what I don't have the power to do.
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby asunthatneversets » Sun May 06, 2012 7:35 pm

pemachophel wrote:(As a humorous aside, I had to go to Berkeley, CA during March to attend a teaching with another Lama. Berkeley/SF sitting on the San Andreas fault as they do, you can bet I put in over-time on this practice while I was there.)


Thank you, much appreciated by myself, and I'm sure conebeckham and everyone else who lives here
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Dronma » Sun May 06, 2012 8:04 pm

alpha wrote:
Dronma wrote:Rinpoche has told many times that for offering our daily meals is enough to spell only OM A HUM. If we cannot spell, then say it under breathing is always sufficient.



to my knowledge there is one more line to add after om ah hung.om ah hung blesses the food.and after that we enjoy our meal while in a state of integration.


We can add many lines before and after OM A HUM! But we are not here for teaching each other, since we all have Gurus and we study and take part in retreats for learning how to apply all these things. ;)
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Dronma » Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 pm

Kilaya. wrote:I usually add the Naggong to the Short Thun, I hope this little invention is not that bad. :smile:


No, it is not. But then the practice has not much difference than the Medium Tun. Maybe you shorten it in about 3-5 minutes....
Which gives us the question, don't we have really enough time for practice or are we a little lazy sometimes (including myself...)? :D
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Re: Protectors in DC question

Postby Kilaya. » Mon May 07, 2012 7:43 am

Dronma wrote:
Kilaya. wrote:I usually add the Naggong to the Short Thun, I hope this little invention is not that bad. :smile:


No, it is not. But then the practice has not much difference than the Medium Tun. Maybe you shorten it in about 3-5 minutes....
Which gives us the question, don't we have really enough time for practice or are we a little lazy sometimes (including myself...)? :D


Inspired by your post I did the Medium Thun last night. :cheers:
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