Dzogchen and Free Will

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Last edited by CapNCrunch on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Paul
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Paul » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:40 pm

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:50 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:52 pm


User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:01 pm

Last edited by CapNCrunch on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dronma
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Dronma » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:04 pm

Very good question and very well placed, CapNCrunch! :smile:
In fact, the law of cause and effect (karma) itself is giving us the only option of free will.
Because we can plant today the seeds for the flourishing of our potentialities in the future.
Of course, we need wise discrimination for understanding what is really beneficial for us and the others, and what is not.
I don't know about Advaita and Neo-Advaita, and I am not really interested in knowing, since I have neither the time nor the energy to follow and practise in more than one paths simultaneously in this short life.
This idea of "nothing to do" which is very much celebrated by some people in Dzogchen, is only a misinterpretation of what qualified teachers are saying. In fact, it serves exactly what it claims that is denying: the EGO, who likes to be free from any discipline and limitation in order to enjoy its own majesty!
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

User avatar
Paul
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Paul » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:12 pm

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:19 pm


dakini_boi
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:02 am

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby dakini_boi » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:24 pm

You might find this helpful:

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... light.html


He directly addresses the question of free will in Buddhism.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:42 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Dronma
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Dronma » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:02 pm

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

User avatar
heart
Posts: 3950
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby heart » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:10 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Jax
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Jax » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:36 pm

I think Magnus has put this topic into practical perspective. But again in Dzogchen "practice" itself, there is no concept of mindfully avoiding following thoughts nor a practice of self-liberating thoughts as both actions are still within the tight grip of ego. Thoughts are primordially empty and require no further liberation. They self-liberate upon the arising in every case, whether "you" like it or not. So there is nothing to do regarding thoughts, their self-liberation is already assured. The micro and macro universe runs on dependent origination. Free choice would mean that there is some independently existing thought, our "choice". But in Dzogchen free will doesn't even exist at the level of Rigpa, because the Rigpa Mandala arises spontaneously (lhundrub). Applying "free will" by carrying over a confused notion of dualistic conceptualizing and trying to transplant it into void space is a hopeless endeavor,theres no possibility of it taking root there. As Namdrol so skillfully pointed out. There is however Intelligence that functions at all levels, even within sem. That is the All Pervasive Rigpa. It is that Intelligence that guides our actions in such a way that the Great Perfection is seen to be working it's perfecting on all levels. When that inherent Intelligence is recognized and self-validated, our practice then truly goes on effortless "auto-pilot". The magic unfolds spontaneously from moment to moment... without the least intention from something you could define as a "doer"...

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:51 pm


User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:56 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:40 pm


User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:40 pm

Sorry - Double post. I'm such a noob. :twothumbsup:
Last edited by CapNCrunch on Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:43 pm


User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:53 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
CapNCrunch
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Dzogchen and Free Will

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:54 pm



Return to “Dzogchen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests