Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

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Re: Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:16 am

padma norbu wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:If you do the purification of the 6 lokas practice thoroughly, this won't even be an issue. You will not even have the possibility of being reborn in samsaric realms after that (by force of karma, that is, not precluding bodhisattva/buddha activity).


don't even understand how that's possible or what you mean by "thoroughly." how could one ever do such an abstract practice "thoroughly?" Is there some sign or result that is obvious and means you have thoroughly done it? I've done it before and, ummmm... well, it just reminded me of something like Israel Regardie's Middle Pillar Ritual. However it works would be utter mystery since it's abstract in the same way that I have no idea why intoning names of Jehovah while visualizing balls of light at various chakra centers would actually purify anything (this is a description of the Middle PIllar Ritual).


There are indeed signs which occur as a result of having accomplished this practice. You should ask Rinpoche about them if they're not in his instruction books on this. Then also, there is the custom--at least in the Longchen Nyingthig tradition of this practice I'm familiar with--to do 100,000 repetitions of a certain ultra-short mantra for each loka, plus extra 100,000 to make up for an shortcomings in one's practice, making the total 700,000.

The difference between this Dzogchen-specific practice and any superficially similar practice you might think of is that in this one you are relying on your very own indwelling three kayas which you not only possess but have had introduced to you and about which you've received instruction... In other traditions' practices this is obviously not at all the case. Beyond that crucial point, no other traditions give the very specific instructions comprising this rushen practice, so they can't hope to accomplish its goals.
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Re: Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

Postby padma norbu » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:55 pm

Thank you for the explanation. Is it possible they would work even if I don't really have any real understanding of it? I received transmission, yes. I have attended retreats, yes. I have been practicing, yes. I am not sure I understand everything the way I should, however, and not sure if this lack of real genuine understanding interferes with this practice. Basically, I would be doing it by faith and by memorization rather than true understanding and knowing intention. By "knowing intention" I mean doing something in absolute surety of how it will turn out due to past experience, logic, etc. For example, if I move my pen on a page, I have a pretty good idea what I can draw. If I was blind, I would have no idea if there was any ink in the pen or if I was drawing anything. The Six Lokas practice for me is a bit like drawing a picture without knowing if there's really any ink in my pen because I don't know if I'm really doing it right, what each mental process is really supposed to be like and if I have done it right.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:00 pm

padma norbu wrote:Thank you for the explanation. Is it possible they would work even if I don't really have any real understanding of it? I received transmission, yes. I have attended retreats, yes. I have been practicing, yes. I am not sure I understand everything the way I should, however, and not sure if this lack of real genuine understanding interferes with this practice. Basically, I would be doing it by faith and by memorization rather than true understanding and knowing intention. By "knowing intention" I mean doing something in absolute surety of how it will turn out due to past experience, logic, etc. For example, if I move my pen on a page, I have a pretty good idea what I can draw. If I was blind, I would have no idea if there was any ink in the pen or if I was drawing anything. The Six Lokas practice for me is a bit like drawing a picture without knowing if there's really any ink in my pen because I don't know if I'm really doing it right, what each mental process is really supposed to be like and if I have done it right.


The lack of real genuine understanding probably doesn't inhibit the practice too much since that initial base intention is there, but I'm sure if you gained that genuine understanding it would significantly strengthen the practice and youd really start to see it bare the fruit it is intended to. It's like those flashlights which can go from a "widespread flood-light type beam" to a "sharp spotlight type beam" either way the light will help you to see in the dark(much like your initial intention), but the light is 10x more bright and strong when sharpened to a smaller area, and your practice will be too when you have that clear cut knowledge because that educated action will bring confidence.
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Re: Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

Postby padma norbu » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:13 pm

But how to get this knowledge? Do I need to attend a retreat specifically on this practice? I have a pamphlet $5 book on it and I think it is probably in one of my other books, but I don't recall being completely floored by understanding anything I read about it. I will reread what I've got, but if there's a specific book or dvd, cd, etc. that really covers it top to bottom please let me know!
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:54 am

Well, I can tell you how my mind approaches the problem of having to take it on faith that this or other practices work: over time I have come to feel very confident in the realization of my gurus, and they are entirely confident in this and other practices--I think they would say, if they were to admit their realzation at all, that it came through the combo of their gurus' blessings and practices like the rushens, etc. So I take it on faith that this rushen, for instance, works because my teachers are wholly confident in it. If you take it on faith in the same way, in relation to ChNN's confidence in it, then I think doing it with that faith and the instructions you've received, you will in time get some signs of its accomplishment. You might email Rinpoche to inquire about these signs. He talks about some of them briefly in one of his public dream yoga books--the one with him on the cover in a chuba on and it's nighttime and there are tigle graphics all around him. I forget the exact title and I'm at work right now.anyway, hope this helps some.
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Re: Awakening compassion dzogchen style?

Postby oleblanc » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:15 am

don't even understand how that's possible or what you mean by "thoroughly."


We have done some lojong practices, tonglen is beautiful, from my experience vajra-breathing is the king of breathing-living.
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