Ground of Being

[heart]

"Likewise, no ignorance exist in the ground, yet ignorance naturally arise from the aspect of what manifested as compassion."

/magnus

exactly.

right

/magnus

[Malcolm]

"Likewise, no ignorance exist in the ground, yet ignorance naturally arise from the aspect of what manifested as compassion."

/magnus

exactly.

Yes, since that aspect was not recognized, but compassion does not arise as ignorance otherwise, ignorance would be intrinsic to the ground, and it is not. For example, the five lights do not arise as the five elements, but since the display of the basis was not recognized, the five elements are effectively arise through the non-recognition of the five lights.

[heart]

"Likewise, no ignorance exist in the ground, yet ignorance naturally arise from the aspect of what manifested as compassion."

/magnus

exactly.

Yes, since that aspect was not recognized, but compassion does not arise as ignorance otherwise, ignorance would be intrinsic to the ground, and it is not. For example, the five lights do not arise as the five elements, but since the display of the basis was not recognized, the five elements are effectively arise through the non-recognition of the five lights.

Exactly, I think that is clear from my quote as well.

/magnus

[Malcolm]

Exactly, I think that is clear from my quote as well.

/magnus

yup

[Malcolm]

Exactly, I think that is clear from my quote as well.

/magnus

yup

[gad rgyangs]

you do realize Magnus that no one here ever said there was ignorance in the ground, right?

[heart]

you do realize Magnus that no one here ever said there was ignorance in the ground, right?

Well, what can I say, I must obviously misunderstand what your point is.

/magnus

[gad rgyangs]

you do realize Magnus that no one here ever said there was ignorance in the ground, right?

Well, what can I say, I must obviously misunderstand what your point is.

/magnus

exactly.

[heart]

you do realize Magnus that no one here ever said there was ignorance in the ground, right?

Well, what can I say, I must obviously misunderstand what your point is.

/magnus

exactly.

So try to express it better then?

/magnus

[asunthatneversets]

Wait so what's the controversy?! I know there's no way everyone is agreeing right now... If that were to happen the Internet might violently implode inwards upon itself infinitely, swallowing the universe.

[Jax]

Each and every phenomenon one could ever think of is dependently originated--we impute singular "thingness" onto "things" which are really aggregations of multiple parts and causes and conditions, and each of those parts are likewise aggregations of multiple parts and causes and conditions, ad infinitum... No thing can be found anywhere that exists by the power of its own essence, made up only of itself, with no dependence on anything else. That being the case--that is, since all phenomena depend for their conventional "existence" on our imputing "thingness" and existence onto them--where can one find anything at all to have begin to exist, endured for a time, and then disintegrated?

At the same time, despite this emptiness, where can one find any cause at all that fails to bear a result, and who can be found that doesn't experience samsara as the Buddha said we do?

Very nice Pema! Very well explicated...