The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

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The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:45 am

Let's just say that I'm currently very far from having the Eight Opportunities and Ten Favorable Conditions for Dharma practice, and that I've been kidding myself thinking that I would either create them all very soon, or "just make it work" without having all of them. And there's more to it than that, although we'll just leave it at that for now.
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby Mr. G » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:23 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Maybe I've been a little hasty on how to go about this....

I'm not saying that the above Dharma items are definitely not for sale anymore, however they are no longer for sale for the time being, that is until further notice.


So your thread on this package for sale is not really for sale? OK then.
    How foolish you are,
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:15 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:

Someone asked via PM why I'm selling them...; well, let's just say that I'm currently very far from having the Eight Opportunities and Ten Favorable Conditions for Dharma practice...


I know how disheartening it can be to honestly appraise one's life and have to come to terms with the above realization. However, as I think you know, there is no immutable self. The compounded self is always changing based on the fruit of our own actions and our own efforts. Therefore, if we don't persevere in creating the causes for the 8 freedoms and ten endowments, from where will they ever magically spring on their own, falling into our lap? You have the ability, however long it may or may not take, to shape the destiny you want for yourself. I hope you'll take heart, man, and have some patience with your temporary conditions and circumstances and expectations of yourself and not feel that if you can't live up to those idealistic expectations of yourself now, that it's fruitless to stick with the path.
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby Mr. G » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:21 pm

I agree. I think Lhug-Pa has a connection to Dzogchen and can be successful at it. It may not be now, but maybe later. I went to a ChNNR retreat for the first time in 2006. From 2004 or 5 till late last year I was doing practices in another tradition. This year, I've got my bearings straight and am focusing on Dzogchen. There is a time for everyone and everything.
    How foolish you are,
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby mint » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:19 pm

Lhug-pa,

I don't think that a person can ever truly walk away from Dzogchen - at least, the underlying ontological and practical principles of it. We're all called to the practice of recognizing pure consciousness where the knower, knowing and that which is known are all one. This isn't just a predestined connection; this is the heart of all spiritual transformation.

I don't think it's any secret here on the forum that I no longer formally consider myself a Dzogchenpa nor do I follow the teachings of ChNN. You may have seen my thread from about a month ago where I tried selling my Shang Shung books. Ultimately, I returned most of them back to Shang Shung for a refund - which was pointless considering shipping costs to Italy. Ironically, in turning away from the formal Dzogchen practices, in studying other material, and in not trying to "be" a particular something or other, the ability to "let go" (tregchod) and relax is more possible than ever before.

So, whether you choose to pursue formal Dzogchen, Zen or esoteric Christianity, the end result is the same: pure consciousness.

May your path of spiritual transformation lead to you to the light.
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:22 pm

I think you should be very wary of selling Dharma books and using the money for your own purposes as it creates very heavy negative karma.

It would be better to sell the books and give the money to a Dharma Centre or to give the books to those who really need them.

We have to be VERY careful around our actions related to Dharma and not create any negative karma or inauspiciousness.

Also, regarding the conditions for your practice, you have clearly met Dharma, have an interest in it and have many books related to it - I would therefore say that you do have the conditions necessary for successful practice and you just need to follow the practices you have been taught. There's not likely to be a better opportunity than the one we have right now.

All the best to you :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby Mr. G » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:23 pm

mint wrote:So, whether you choose to pursue formal Dzogchen, Zen or esoteric Christianity, the end result is the same: pure consciousness.


Though I agree that people should pursue the practice they have the best connection with, I don't agree that the end result is the same.
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby mint » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:06 pm

Mr. G wrote:Though I agree that people should pursue the practice they have the best connection with, I don't agree that the end result is the same.


You don't agree that the end result is pure consciousness?
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Re: Dzogchen Anniversary Transmission Package For Sale

Postby Sönam » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:30 pm

mint wrote:
Mr. G wrote:Though I agree that people should pursue the practice they have the best connection with, I don't agree that the end result is the same.


You don't agree that the end result is pure consciousness?


yes ... but what does it means?

S
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Yogacara, Dzogchen, Experience

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:33 am

Hi Namdrol

Namdrol wrote:You have a lot of karmic connection with Dzogchen. But you can screw it up in three ways: not protecting your samaya, not practicing in a careful and precise way, and giving too much weight to conceptual experiences.


Could you or anyone else elaborate on this?

If one recognizes that they've screwed up, isn't it always possible to purify the mistake through Guru-Yoga and Ganapuja or Vajrasattva practice, etc., so long as it is done within three years per the rules of Vajrayana? Or is it different in Mahasandhiyana than it is in Tantrayana?

Is there any screw-up that is not purifiable according to the Dzogchen teachings?

Going back to my "Did I Receive Transmission?" thread from a while ago..., if I had actually broken Samaya over three years ago when I wasn't sure if I had or not, wouldn't 'The Universe' have made it impossible for me to eventually receive Direct Introduction from Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, that is, again, IF I had actually broken Samaya back then and had also gone over three years without purifying it? (I know that we came to the conclusion in the said thread that no actual Samaya was made and therefore not broken; yet not yet being 100% sure about it still haunts me sometimes).

Thanks in advance for anything you may be able to share regarding these questions.
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Re: Yogacara, Dzogchen, Experience

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:41 am

Well maybe these are questions I should be asking Rinpoche.... I'm sure he's really busy though, so if anyone happens to have answers to these questions, then why not ask here first eh?
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:46 am

Thanks all for the encouragement.

I just had kind of a freak-out, mostly caused by some old neurosis and emotional & intellectual baggage.

Anyway, I'll try to reply here again a little later.
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:15 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:I know how disheartening it can be to honestly appraise one's life and have to come to terms with the above realization. However, as I think you know, there is no immutable self. The compounded self is always changing based on the fruit of our own actions and our own efforts. Therefore, if we don't persevere in creating the causes for the 8 freedoms and ten endowments, from where will they ever magically spring on their own, falling into our lap? You have the ability, however long it may or may not take, to shape the destiny you want for yourself. I hope you'll take heart, man, and have some patience with your temporary conditions and circumstances and expectations of yourself and not feel that if you can't live up to those idealistic expectations of yourself now, that it's fruitless to stick with the path.


You're right, even if I really do need to do a lot of preliminary and purification practices like I think I do, self obsessing isn't going to help achieve it at all.


Mr. G wrote:I agree. I think Lhug-Pa has a connection to Dzogchen and can be successful at it. It may not be now, but maybe later. I went to a ChNNR retreat for the first time in 2006. From 2004 or 5 till late last year I was doing practices in another tradition. This year, I've got my bearings straight and am focusing on Dzogchen. There is a time for everyone and everything.


The thing about this is that there's no guarantee that we'll have the opportunity to practice in the future. At the same time, as we all know, we've got to work with circumstances. You know what I might just be able to make it happen if I sacrifice some more things in my life that I previously thought were necessities, but are actually not.


mint wrote:Lhug-pa,

I don't think that a person can ever truly walk away from Dzogchen - at least, the underlying ontological and practical principles of it. We're all called to the practice of recognizing pure consciousness where the knower, knowing and that which is known are all one. This isn't just a predestined connection; this is the heart of all spiritual transformation.

I don't think it's any secret here on the forum that I no longer formally consider myself a Dzogchenpa nor do I follow the teachings of ChNN. You may have seen my thread from about a month ago where I tried selling my Shang Shung books. Ultimately, I returned most of them back to Shang Shung for a refund - which was pointless considering shipping costs to Italy. Ironically, in turning away from the formal Dzogchen practices, in studying other material, and in not trying to "be" a particular something or other, the ability to "let go" (tregchod) and relax is more possible than ever before.

So, whether you choose to pursue formal Dzogchen, Zen or esoteric Christianity, the end result is the same: pure consciousness.

May your path of spiritual transformation lead to you to the light.


Yes I remember that thread. I'm glad that you found some peace of mind, even if it was due to putting Dzogchen practice on hold. May you have the good fortune to practice and study enough to be confident in your Spiritual practice whatever it may be; and may it lead you to the Light as well.

Now I really doubt that Zen or Esoteric Christianity would have the same result as Dzogchen, although I suspect that they could get one a lot closer to some level of Liberation than many apparent Buddhist fundamentalists would think.


Tsongkhapafan wrote:I think you should be very wary of selling Dharma books and using the money for your own purposes as it creates very heavy negative karma.

It would be better to sell the books and give the money to a Dharma Centre or to give the books to those who really need them.

We have to be VERY careful around our actions related to Dharma and not create any negative karma or inauspiciousness.

Also, regarding the conditions for your practice, you have clearly met Dharma, have an interest in it and have many books related to it - I would therefore say that you do have the conditions necessary for successful practice and you just need to follow the practices you have been taught. There's not likely to be a better opportunity than the one we have right now.

All the best to you :smile:


Well selling Dharma books for almost half of what one paid for them would probably be a neutral karmic act (neither bad or good per-se). Although I did consider lowering the price even more, or even donating them to a local Nyingma Ling. The only reason I'd considered selling them, is that we could use the money for our household, so it wasn't only self-consideration involved there. Yet since Dharma practice is more conducive to good fortune for ourselves and for anyone we come into contact with, then in the long run it would be much better for all, to keep the books and practice as soon as possible instead of selling them now in hopes that someday I'll be more successful in life in order to buy them again (and again, there's no guarantee that the latter would happen).

Anyway yeah, thanks again for your encouragement.
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:48 am

If a moderator is reading this, might as well combine this thread with the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5843#p65029

If you don't mind. That way we can have all my nonsense together in one thread.

Anyway, even though, as I've said it's a pretty sure thing that I did not actually make any authentic Samaya over three years ago, I still wonder if the three year thing about Samaya is definitive or provisional?


Repeating the Words of the Buddha by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

"One can mend damaged samayas by applying the four remedial powers, involving the chanting of the Hundred Syllable mantra, the quintessence of the mind of all the buddhas. Doing so will certainly repair any broken samaya.    But the confession has to take place within three years; once three years have passed without a confession    the samaya is irrevocably broken and cannot be mended."

The Words of My Perfect Teacher by Patrul Rinpoche

"The longer you wait, however, the more powerful the fault grows, and the more difficult confession becomes. If you wait more than three years, the downfall is said to be beyond confession. Even if you confess it, no purification will take place."

Rainbow Painting by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

"In the general classifications of samaya you find the four stages called infraction, transgression, violation, and breach [literally: contradicting, damaging, breaking, and passing]. These categories depend in part on the length of time which has passed since the samaya was damaged. After three years of still not having apologized, there is no longer any chance to mend the samaya . At this point it is overstepped and becomes irreparable."

Rainbow Painting by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

"...This must take place before three years have passed; otherwise it is very hard. This is the only and primary quality of evil deeds: that they can be purified through apology and resolution. That evil deeds can be purified through apology is one of the special qualities of Vajrayana."

"We must purify them with apology, which is always possible, as I mentioned when defining the only virtue of evil deeds. This is the purpose of the Hundred Syllable Mantra among the preliminary practices."

The Words of My Perfect Teacher

"If just one person in an assembly has violated the samayas, the other hundred or thousand people who have all kept their own commitments will be contaminated to the point that they will receive no benefit from their practice. It is like a single drop of sour milk turning a whole pot of fresh milk sour, or one frog infested with sores infecting all the others around. As it is said:
"One drop of sour milk
Turns all the milk sour.
One degenerate yogi
Spoils all the other yogis."
"What is more, there is not a single teacher, even if he is a great lama or a siddha, who can escape this sort of contamination by samaya violations."


It looks like, according to the words in bold in the second-to-last above quote, the three year thing is actually provisional. :consoling:

Is there any Indian or Oddiyana source for the three year rule on repairing broken Samayas?
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:53 am

Lhug-pa,

Which of the freedoms or endowments are you lacking?
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:55 am

Well my situation is similar to a few years ago when I thought I didn't have all the freedoms and endowments; however in looking them over again it seems that I actually do have them. So it turns out that I was only being unnecesarily dramatic and pessimistic. :oops:

Nonetheless, it would still be very worthwhile to know more about the mentioned "three year rule", and also about the questions asked in this post.
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:58 am

Lhug-pa,

I had a feeling that if you looked over the freedoms/advantages, you would find that you had them intact. It would be rare to find someone with sincere intent posting on this board who was lacking any of these.

As for breaking samaya - if you are really not sure you had taken samaya, you most likely didn't. Or if you received direct introduction, but were ignorant of any samaya involved, how could you keep it anyway? Do you think that toddlers running around at an empowerment, even after taking empowerment ("samaya") substances, are then holders of vows? If you are sincere about wanting to end your ignorance, that is what is important. You learn little by little what is required, and you apply it as best as you can. Rather than keep worrying about whether you broke your samaya or not, use this as an opportunity to observe your samsaric mind in action - that is what this is about. You're causing yourself distress over this in much the same way you probably cause yourself distress over many other things. The enemy is not broken vows or poor dharma practice, the enemy is the dualistic mind. It always creates problems out of nothing. I wish you most rapid revelation of unconditional bliss! :namaste:
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:59 pm

dakini_boi wrote:I wish you most rapid revelation of unconditional bliss! :namaste:


Likewise! :anjali:

I was skipping around reading parts of Longchenpa Rabjampa's Treasury of Philosophical Systems, and it is written that practicing Vajrayana without the Empowerments will lead to ruin; and so I wonder if that has been a huge cause for many obstacles for me. On the bright side of that, how could a promise that I've made in the past (well over three years ago) have counted as a Samaya if I'd never even received the Empowerments? Of course any broken promise is bad karma, however without receiving the Empowerments, a promise is not a Samaya even if one thinks it is. And again (unrelated to the said broken promise), I highly doubt that the acquaintance mentioned in my other thread had any Spiritual authority to directly introduce me to the Nature of Mind.

Going way back to this post, I have to say that until receiving the Four Empowerments and/or completing some Rushen practices, I'll have no idea as to whether or not I've actually received Direct Introduction. I felt "different" and a bit more open after having attended one of Rinpoche's webcasts for the first time, however that doesn't necessarily indicate receiving Direct Introduction does it?

During the previous Worldwide Transmission I didn't receive the Lung-style Four Empowerments because of technical difficulties, and I also did not receive them during the Dorje Drolo webcast either because of technical difficulties.

Now some questions still remain:

Is receiving Direct Introduction to Dzogchen equivalent to receiving the Fourth Empowerment; and if so, does receiving the Direct Introduction/Fourth Empowerment automatically include the other Three Empowerments? (Anyone have any quotes on this from Garab Dorje, Guru Rinpoche, Longchenpa Rabjampa, Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen, Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, etc.?)

Can we be sure that receiving Dzogchen teachings from Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche—NOT during a Worldwide Transmission with its Empowerments—in itself includes Direct Introduction if it is our intention to receive Direct Introduction?
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:07 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:
1) Is receiving Direct Introduction to Dzogchen equivalent to receiving the Fourth Empowerment;


2) does receiving the Direct Introduction/Fourth Empowerment automatically include the other Three Empowerments?

3) Can we be sure that receiving Dzogchen teachings from Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche NOT during a Worldwide Transmission with its Empowerments in itself includes Direct Introduction if it is our intention to receive Direct Introduction?


1) Yes.

2) Yes, from a Dzogchen perspective.

3) Yes.
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Re: The Freedoms and Endowments For Dzogchen Practice

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:59 pm

Namdrol wrote:1) Yes.

2) Yes, from a Dzogchen perspective.

3) Yes.


That is certainly encouraging.


About this...:


Lhug-Pa wrote:
Namdrol wrote:You have a lot of karmic connection with Dzogchen. But you can screw it up in three ways: not protecting your samaya, not practicing in a careful and precise way, and giving too much weight to conceptual experiences.


Could you or anyone else elaborate on this?

If one recognizes that they've screwed up, isn't it always possible to purify the mistake through Guru-Yoga and Ganapuja or Vajrasattva practice, etc., so long as it is done within three years per the rules of Vajrayana? Or is it different in Mahasandhiyana than it is in Tantrayana?

Is there any screw-up that is not purifiable according to the Dzogchen teachings?


From the Dorje Drolo thread:

Namdrol wrote:Best purification is rigpa. After that, Guru Yoga, after that, Ganapuja.


This being said, if we always do our best to observe the Four Samayas, the 27 Samayas, and the 25 branch-Samayas of Dzogchen, enumerated in Enlightened Journey by Tulku Thondup, and perform regular Ganapujas (say at least twice a month if not more); we should be good in regard to maintaining Samaya, right?


Also:


Tulku Thondup wrote:Panchen Pema Wangyal summarizes the Tantric precepts in the following lines:

"In brief, if you realize your own body (i.e. Body, Speech, and Mind) as the Three Vajras (the Body, Speech, and Mind of the Deities),
Then the observance of hundreds of thousands of millions of precepts of Tantra is encompassed in this realization."


And other similar quotes regarding the Four Samayas of Trekchö & Thögal encompassing all other Samayas, etc.
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