ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby MrDistracted » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:15 pm

michaelb wrote:I think one of them is a terma discovered by the Fifth Dalai Lama.



Thanks
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby ratna » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:04 am

Also, Dorje Drolo Hūṃ sgrub from the Yangzab; Chöje Lingpa's cycle; Dechen Lingpa's Hūṃ sgrub; Chokling's Rigdzin Dorje Drolo and Kongtrul's Drolo Sangdrup.

From Jangter, there is Thukdrub Dorje Drakpo Tsal and the practice of Guru Drakpo together with the nine deities of Amitayus, but not Drolo, it seems.

michaelb wrote:I think one of them is a terma discovered by the Fifth Dalai Lama and another by Dudul Dorje. And I'm guessing it may include a Jangter Drolo.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby MrDistracted » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:41 am

ratna wrote:Also, Dorje Drolo Hūṃ sgrub from the Yangzab; Chöje Lingpa's cycle; Dechen Lingpa's Hūṃ sgrub; Chokling's Rigdzin Dorje Drolo and Kongtrul's Drolo Sangdrup.

From Jangter, there is Thukdrub Dorje Drakpo Tsal and the practice of Guru Drakpo together with the nine deities of Amitayus, but not Drolo, it seems.

michaelb wrote:I think one of them is a terma discovered by the Fifth Dalai Lama and another by Dudul Dorje. And I'm guessing it may include a Jangter Drolo.


Thanks Ratna, thanks Michael. That's helped me out.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby lelopa » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:11 am

michaelb wrote:

Nangwa wrote:

padma norbu wrote:Which files were people talking about on this thread here?
http://www.tbrc.org/#library_BannerSear ... rolo"

^ I searched Dorje Drolo, but there's quite a few files. Apparently one of them is one we should grab?

There is a collection of Dorje Drolo works by in Adzom Drukpa's collected works.

They are here:
http://tbrc.org/#library_work_Object-W30344
584 pages. previously, Namdrol said a short sadhana was on pages 133-135.



How canyou see the pages 133-135?
I can only read the beginning & end of this book in the reader!
From where could i get this book (or the few pages of the sadhana)?
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby michaelb » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:27 am

lelopa wrote:How canyou see the pages 133-135?
I can only read the beginning & end of this book in the reader!
From where could i get this book (or the few pages of the sadhana)?

You have to join TBRC. Hopefully, if should be a quicker process than joining DC.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby lelopa » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:21 pm

hello!
thx for answering i did register two years ago and i can find texts - but i do not know what to do to read, or downlaod it exept a few pages...or is there any other membership?
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby michaelb » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:36 pm

lelopa wrote:hello!
thx for answering i did register two years ago and i can find texts - but i do not know what to do to read, or downlaod it exept a few pages...or is there any other membership?

I think you have to request full access. not sure how it works, though.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:21 pm

he's giving the lung again now it sounds like... a simple version.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Pero » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:44 pm

Namdrol or someone, is the teaching Rinpoche gave today in the same book as the short sadhana of Dorje Drolo? And if so, on which page?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby ratna » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:55 pm

Pero wrote:Namdrol or someone, is the teaching Rinpoche gave today in the same book as the short sadhana of Dorje Drolo? And if so, on which page?


Yes, pp 95-100.

Today's teaching was just awesome.

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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby MrDistracted » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:20 pm

Yes, awesome. These are the first teachings, other than reading Crystal and the Way of Light that I've received from Rinpoche, it's pretty mindblowing.

Did I hear it right that he said that he would give the donwang again tomorrow because of the bad connection yesterday?
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Malcolm » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:21 pm

MrDistracted wrote:Yes, awesome. These are the first teachings, other than reading Crystal and the Way of Light that I've received from Rinpoche, it's pretty mindblowing.

Did I hear it right that he said that he would give the donwang again tomorrow because of the bad connection yesterday?



I think so, in a more essential way.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:59 pm

I had some questions which I think I can ask openly since it was an open webcast.

On either Saturday or Sunday, he said that it was important to have good visualization; this is "quality" practice (his words). Without good visualization, it becomes "quantity." Question: before this, I've always heard that we shouldn't work too hard on visualization in Dzogchen practices because it's not development stage practice. Rather, we should visualize in a basic way and just know it is the situation without any doubt. These two ideas seemed to contradict.

Today he said, as he always does, that the most important practice is guru yoga. I do not recall his exact words, but he said something to the effect that he would be happy if his students abandoned a lot of other practices and just performed guru yoga. I can never quite figure out what is the point of all these other practices if this is the case. Surely, these practices must be somehow more beneficial to us depending on circumstances, but it seems like it always boils down to 'there is no practice more beneficial than guru yoga.' ...but if this is really accurate, then how is it said Dorje Drolo is so powerful as to either lead to enlightenment or mental instability? If it's that powerful, then it sounds in a way more powerful. Just trying to suss out the details here.

Thanks in advance. I don't want to get into a debate or lengthy discussion, just some quick answers would be nice.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Mr. G » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:20 pm

My thoughts:

padma norbu wrote:On either Saturday or Sunday, he said that it was important to have good visualization; this is "quality" practice (his words). Without good visualization, it becomes "quantity."


This was in reference to the mantra recitation and the seed syllable with trondu. For this, it is quality as opposed to quanitity. For example most people's thoughts wander even though they may be banging out thousands of recitations. This is not as effective as doing a smaller amount with focus on the seed syllable and trondu.

Question: before this, I've always heard that we shouldn't work too hard on visualization in Dzogchen practices because it's not development stage practice. Rather, we should visualize in a basic way and just know it is the situation without any doubt. These two ideas seemed to contradict.


This was in reference to Anuyoga as opposed to Mahayoga. There is more time taken when visualizing details in Mahayoga...this is not required at all in Anuyoga. This was different than the discussion on having good visualization for mantra recitation with the trondu.

Today he said, as he always does, that the most important practice is guru yoga. I do not recall his exact words, but he said something to the effect that he would be happy if his students abandoned a lot of other practices and just performed guru yoga. I can never quite figure out what is the point of all these other practices if this is the case. Surely, these practices must be somehow more beneficial to us depending on circumstances, but it seems like it always boils down to 'there is no practice more beneficial than guru yoga.' ....


There is Guru Yoga in Drollo too...the seed syllable is different. Which is also why Guru Dragphur can be swapped out in place of Drolo in the Short Thun. If you look at the Anuyoga practices, it is the same. Some prefer different deities over others like Garuda for health, or Yellow Tara for wealth. All practices in the community have Guru Yoga, but these particular deities offer the practitioner certain benefits if they need it depending upon the circumstance. If one has the merit and wisdom, then sure, Guru Yoga as done in the Tun's are enough.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby wisdom » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:33 pm

padma norbu wrote:On either Saturday or Sunday, he said that it was important to have good visualization; this is "quality" practice (his words). Without good visualization, it becomes "quantity." Question: before this, I've always heard that we shouldn't work too hard on visualization in Dzogchen practices because it's not development stage practice. Rather, we should visualize in a basic way and just know it is the situation without any doubt. These two ideas seemed to contradict.


His comment on Quality vs. Quality was in reference to our focus and intention. At first we do a practice we are very focused, visualizations are good, and we are meticulous in everything we are doing. Once we get used to what we are doing, we begin to just routinely perform these functions while the mind is off wandering and thinking of other problems we are having or things we want to do, and so forth. He was saying that we must be diligent in always keeping ourselves focused, with the proper intentions, not letting our practice waver and our minds run off into conceptual thoughts. That the diligence we have on day 1 of a practice we should strive to have every day.

padma norbu wrote:Today he said, as he always does, that the most important practice is guru yoga. I do not recall his exact words, but he said something to the effect that he would be happy if his students abandoned a lot of other practices and just performed guru yoga.


He was saying this because many students accumulate all these practices and go through them one by one, and its never good enough. They want this mantra, that empowerment. They want Black Manjushri when they already have more powerful wrathful mantras and empowerments hes given them. He said they are in conceptual thinking about practices, and they are failing to realize that the essence of them all is Guru Yoga.

padma norbu wrote:I can never quite figure out what is the point of all these other practices if this is the case. Surely, these practices must be somehow more beneficial to us depending on circumstances, but it seems like it always boils down to 'there is no practice more beneficial than guru yoga.' ...but if this is really accurate, then how is it said Dorje Drolo is so powerful as to either lead to enlightenment or mental instability? If it's that powerful, then it sounds in a way more powerful. Just trying to suss out the details here.


Conventionally and relatively speaking there are numerous things happening, numerous manifestations, numerous conditions. Ultimately the true nature of all things is the same. So for example, one day you go to work, make some money, come home. The next day you have off, so you relax and do something you enjoy. This is conventional, relative reality. The true nature of all those situations, the ultimate nature of them all, is the same. In the same way you might have a certain set of conditions you want to remove, such as a disease. So you use Dorje Drolo for that. Why do you use Dorje Drolo instead of another practice? Because conventionally thats what works to remove that obstacle. In the same way, just because you recognize that the essential nature of a knife is the same as your car tire, you cannot use a knife to repair a flat tire. So conventionally you use the proper tool. Ultimately you recognize that the practice of Dorje Drolo, powerful as it is in removing obstacles, is an expression and manifestation of the primordial nature. That the true nature of Dorje Drolo and yourself are identical. By recognizing that while you practice Dorje Drolo, you are practicing in the Ati Yoga way.

Thats why the essence of all practices is Guru Yoga, because they are all expressions of the primordial nature, which is your real nature. Conventionally they might have different outcomes, just like conventionally there are numerous situations and conditions we find ourselves in during life. Ultimately the nature of them all is the same. We do one practice over another as skillful means, working with the conditions and situations we have.

To put this in another way, ideally whatever we are doing we are seeing things like this. We see that we are in this condition, this circumstance, at this place, this time, with these people, doing these things. Thats our conventional, relative, conditional reality. At the same time, though we are interacting with that world, we are recognizing it all as a manifestation of our true nature, and that all things which exist are manifestations of the potential of the true nature of reality.

This is at least how I heard the teachings today.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Dronma » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:40 pm

padma norbu wrote:On either Saturday or Sunday, he said that it was important to have good visualization; this is "quality" practice (his words). Without good visualization, it becomes "quantity." Question: before this, I've always heard that we shouldn't work too hard on visualization in Dzogchen practices because it's not development stage practice. Rather, we should visualize in a basic way and just know it is the situation without any doubt. These two ideas seemed to contradict.


Rinpoche always explain a lot of things from all the levels of Vajrayana vehicles, so we can understand well which are the differences in between the various levels of practice. His advice is always that we try to do "quality" practice and not "quantity". "Quality" practice means that we are able to keep constantly the presence and not be distracted during the recitation. If we cannot do that and we feel that we are often distracted, then it is also good to do at least "quantity". There is no contradiction in his words! :smile:

padma norbu wrote:Today he said, as he always does, that the most important practice is guru yoga. I do not recall his exact words, but he said something to the effect that he would be happy if his students abandoned a lot of other practices and just performed guru yoga. I can never quite figure out what is the point of all these other practices if this is the case. Surely, these practices must be somehow more beneficial to us depending on circumstances, but it seems like it always boils down to 'there is no practice more beneficial than guru yoga.' ...but if this is really accurate, then how is it said Dorje Drolo is so powerful as to either lead to enlightenment or mental instability? If it's that powerful, then it sounds in a way more powerful. Just trying to suss out the details here.


You are trying too much with your mind. But for being really able to do Guru Yoga, we have to go beyond mind to the Nature of Mind! It is very simple and at the same time very difficult for people like us with overloaded minds.... :rolleye:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby alpha » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:58 pm

I lost count how many times rinpoche said that if we are dzogchen practitioners we should do guru yoga and be in a state of guru yoga as much as posible.

If one has lots of time does that mean that one should sound A 3 million times a day all day long?

And another question.
If you are a dzogchen practitioner and you practice guru yoga of white A only as rinpoche sugests will this lead to the ultimate realization that of achieving rainbow body in this lifetime?
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Sönam » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:10 pm

" ... when we are in our real nature, we don't need any concept. Concept exists, but when we are in our real nature it self disappear. It is not necessary to develop, because if we develop it exists everything ... it's much better when we go in essence. If you go in essence, you don't need much mantra, you can use only Om Ah Hung, in essence resolving in Ah ..."
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Pero » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:15 pm

alpha wrote:If one has lots of time does that mean that one should sound A 3 million times a day all day long?

If you like. Might be tough though. If you have a lot of time then it's better you alternate with song of the vajra.

If you are a dzogchen practitioner and you practice guru yoga of white A only as rinpoche sugests will this lead to the ultimate realization that of achieving rainbow body in this lifetime?

No, you need to practice longde, thogal or yangti for achieving rainbow body.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Dronma » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm

alpha wrote:I lost count how many times rinpoche said that if we are dzogchen practitioners we should do guru yoga and be in a state of guru yoga as much as posible.


First of all, we have to be sure that we understand well what is really Guru Yoga! For this reason, I suggest the book "Guru Yoga" by ChNN, Shang Shung Edizioni 2011. But be careful, for being able to read it, you have to receive first transmission from Rinpoche!

alpha wrote:If one has lots of time does that mean that one should sound A 3 million times a day all day long?


When we know what is really the state of Guru Yoga, then we know what to do each moment and each day... ;)

alpha wrote:And another question.
If you are a dzogchen practitioner and you practice guru yoga of white A only as rinpoche sugests will this lead to the ultimate realization that of achieving rainbow body in this lifetime?


The attachment even to the ideas such as ultimate realization or rainbow body can create obstacles...... :namaste:
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