Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby mindyourmind » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:27 am

Darmosiel wrote:
catmoon wrote:
dumbbombu wrote:sorry, not getting it. :shrug:

isn't that akin to saying it doesn't matter what you follow as it all leads to enlightenment? apologies if i'm wrong.


Suppose you go down to the local Baptist church and tell the pastor, "Your teachings, and all of Christianity, indeed all religious teachings, come in the end, to a final, simple thing; the teachings of Dzogchen." Do you think he would agree?


:lol: Because if you said that you would be wrong. Dzogchen is like reaching the Ph.D level of study when all you have learned before falls into place and you become (hopefully) a Realized being. But, one can study, study, and study, and never each Enlightenment. Why do you think that is?



Because one spends too much time on internet chat forums ? :stirthepot:
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby heart » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:34 am

Darmosiel wrote: But, one can study, study, and study, and never each Enlightenment. Why do you think that is?


Study is not enough, you have to practice. You have to get the instructions and apply them for a very long time.

/magnus
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:35 pm

catmoon wrote:Did you mean to say "cause" instead of consequence?

The idea that Dharma is the cause and Dzogchen the result can't possibly be universal, simply because the are billions of Buddhists who are not Dzogchenpas.


All Buddhas are Dzogchenpas. :twisted:
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby catmoon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:11 pm

Namdrol wrote:
catmoon wrote:Did you mean to say "cause" instead of consequence?

The idea that Dharma is the cause and Dzogchen the result can't possibly be universal, simply because the are billions of Buddhists who are not Dzogchenpas.


All Buddhas are Dzogchenpas. :twisted:


Would that include the Mormon Buddhas? :tongue:
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:47 pm

catmoon wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
catmoon wrote:Did you mean to say "cause" instead of consequence?

The idea that Dharma is the cause and Dzogchen the result can't possibly be universal, simply because the are billions of Buddhists who are not Dzogchenpas.


All Buddhas are Dzogchenpas. :twisted:


Would that include the Mormon Buddhas? :tongue:


All the Mormon Buddhas! Except for Mitt Romney... Because he's a Mormon sh*thead. Zing! Politics and religion in the same post, this thread just became officially inappropriate for dinner table/first date discussion. You've been warned out of compassion to avoid slappings from mothers / potential lovers.
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby catmoon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:48 pm

Dayum, I've been modded!
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby mint » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:29 pm

"I must become God and God must become me, so completely that we share the same "I" eternally. Our truest "I" is God."
Meister Eckhart
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Dronma » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:24 am

So much analysis always gives more confusion. :rolleye:
I suggest more intellectual minimalism... :meditate:
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Jikan » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:27 am

mint wrote:"I must become God and God must become me, so completely that we share the same "I" eternally. Our truest "I" is God."
Meister Eckhart


relevance?
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:55 pm

mint wrote:"I must become God and God must become me, so completely that we share the same "I" eternally. Our truest "I" is God."
Meister Eckhart


Btw, Mint, could you give the quote's exact source?
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Sönam » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:20 pm

mint wrote:"I must become God and God must become me, so completely that we share the same "I" eternally. Our truest "I" is God."
Meister Eckhart


Pure garbage, totaly irrelevant in a buddhist forum ...

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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:41 pm

But it's fun to compare quotes though:


Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche wrote:"Reading the Kunjed Gyalpo you will often come across the word "I": "I am the nature of all phenomena," "I am the root of existence," and so on. This "I" is your true state: the primordial Buddha, the supreme source of manifestation."


Of course the two quotes are most likely coming from two totally different views.

Hey Mint, have you ever heard of Jakob/Jacob Boehme/Böhme/Behmen and Johann Georg Gichtel? They were European Christians during the 16th/17th Centuries who had to have had some level of Yogic/Gnostic realization. They were describing Chakras which was probably unheard of in Europe back then (Theosophia Practica by Johann Gichtel):


Image
Image
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:01 pm

How are eternalism and strict duality supposed to lead to a recognition of our non-dual nature? Can a Christian attain enlightenment? Sure. But that doesn't mean they will, or that the odds are in their favor. As far as being a Dzogchenpa and an Eternalist, it simply doesn't make sense. Once you have a direct experience of the nature of mind, to continue believing in God, or the concrete reality of good and evil, would require massive amounts of cognitive dissonance. To imply that Christian, Jewish, or Muslim practice is actually leading to a realization of the Great Perfection is rather disrespectful to those traditions.
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Dronma » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:36 pm

JinpaRangdrol wrote:How are eternalism and strict duality supposed to lead to a recognition of our non-dual nature? Can a Christian attain enlightenment? Sure. But that doesn't mean they will, or that the odds are in their favor. As far as being a Dzogchenpa and an Eternalist, it simply doesn't make sense. Once you have a direct experience of the nature of mind, to continue believing in God, or the concrete reality of good and evil, would require massive amounts of cognitive dissonance. To imply that Christian, Jewish, or Muslim practice is actually leading to a realization of the Great Perfection is rather disrespectful to those traditions.


I agree with JinpaRangdrol.
Of course, all beings (not only humans) have the primordial potentiality to be fully awakened. But this is the root (basis), then follow the different paths and each of them leads to the completion of a goal.
The ultimate goal of aforementioned religions is Τheosis (Greek language is very accurate in philosophical concepts, so Τheosis means to "become one with the God or Gods" - hence Theosophia= wisdom of God/Gods). The ultimate goal of Dzogchen (and let me say of the whole Vajrayana) is Enlightenment = Full Awakening = Great Liberation = Total Perfection.
Do they sound the same? ;)
Last edited by Dronma on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:53 pm

Dronma wrote:
Do they sound the same?


Not at all.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen
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