Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

User avatar
Zenshin 善心
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:29 pm
Location: Fukuoka

Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:30 am

a continuation of the side-topic emerging from this thread - and Namdrol's comments around page 5...

so i'm intrigued by the implications of Dzogchen being the final meaning of all non-Buddhist teachings and was wondering if anyone could help lay it out for me and clear up any misconceptions i might have about such a comment. i vaguely recall a debate in here about whether a priest could practice Dzogchen and still lay claim to being a Christian or not - perhaps this is related.
thing is, how does such a view avoid sinking into a warm fuzzy syncretism where all paths lead to the same destination. because, as appealing as such a stance may admittedly appear, are there not too many irreconcilable differences for this to be true? or have i read your comments all wrong Namdrol?

disclaimer: i don't know a great deal about Dzogchen and lay no claims to an interest in practising it (just happy with my own school pure and simple tbh) but i recently read The Crystal and the Way of Light and it did perk my interest in learning more about it. as such please keep any replies terminology-lite if poss, cheers :smile:
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith


User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Sönam » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:28 am

Dharma is the ultimate consequence and Dzogchen is the result ... how could it not included all other paths?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:45 am

Did you mean to say "cause" instead of consequence?

The idea that Dharma is the cause and Dzogchen the result can't possibly be universal, simply because the are billions of Buddhists who are not Dzogchenpas.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Sönam » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:00 pm

English is not my native language (as you may already know) ... but I thought ultimate consequence could correspond to Dzogchen being the final meaning of all non-Buddhist teachings

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:11 pm

I don't think you will get many non-Buddhist teachers to agree with that, but it would be interesting to try.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

User avatar
Zenshin 善心
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:29 pm
Location: Fukuoka

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:17 pm

sorry, not getting it. :shrug:

isn't that akin to saying it doesn't matter what you follow as it all leads to enlightenment? apologies if i'm wrong.
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith


Fruitzilla
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:44 am

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Fruitzilla » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:20 pm

Sounds like marketing to me.

I've seen "My Reincarnation this morning, and I can say from what I've seen that it looks not to be the case in what I'm studying/teaching.

User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:22 pm

Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Sönam » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:22 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Sönam » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:24 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

User avatar
Zenshin 善心
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:29 pm
Location: Fukuoka

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:28 pm

All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith


User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:29 pm

Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Sönam » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:29 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

User avatar
Zenshin 善心
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:29 pm
Location: Fukuoka

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:38 pm

All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith


Pero
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Pero » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:12 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Acchantika
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:04 am

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Acchantika » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:14 pm

...

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:21 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Pema Rigdzin
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:25 pm


User avatar
Darmosiel
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:36 am

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Darmosiel » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:44 am

I guess I'm not understanding the original question. Are you asking if a Christian can attain Enlightenment? If so, I believe yes it is possible. Religion itself is only a vehicle what matters is awareness. Ending the duality. The end is only the other side of the same river.

User avatar
Darmosiel
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:36 am

Re: Dzogchen, Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings...

Postby Darmosiel » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:07 am



Return to “Dzogchen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 22 guests