Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby muni » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:10 am

There is no good Dharmakaya master or no bad one. Thinking mind sees merely named ones( graspable) who are getting an idea-stamp of "correct Dharmakaya". Bam!

My mind want sensations, special effects, something wow graspable while Dzogchen master shows how elaborations are free. Nature of Mind is not complicated, rather opposite. But this is difficult for my thinking mind, what don't want to give up.

A Dharmakaya master showing a handful air/space in which all phenomena are free, is not selling it for gold or firework.

Still general teaching is needful.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby robaire » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:32 pm

it's confusing because you're placing trust in language, not feelings.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:40 pm

robaire wrote:it's confusing because you're placing trust in language, not feelings.


Putting one's faith in one's feelings would be better than trusting language? You quite sure here?
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Sönam » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:00 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
robaire wrote:it's confusing because you're placing trust in language, not feelings.


Putting one's faith in one's feelings would be better than trusting language? You quite sure here?


would'nt it be better to feel the language?

Sônam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby muni » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:26 pm

robaire wrote:it's confusing because you're placing trust in language, not feelings.


You possible mean in words and not remaining "experience" (sorry, if misunderstood)

When we read/write words, in whatever which language, we can get a powerful experience and we are completely disappeared in that, but as soon as the words are vanished, the experience as well is fading. We can continue so whole life long reading and reading and at the end when we seem to change bodies, leave empty handed as no text we can take with us.

"Intellectual investigations can continue endlessly and fruitlessly like a small bird that flies off the ship in the middle of the ocean in an attempt to find sky's limit. The sky is so vast that the bird will tire and have no choice but to return to the ship failing to accomplish its goal. Similarly we will never find an end to mental fabrications".

Therefore we must direct our very heart to the Guru to melt in devotion-compassion-insight.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby muni » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:16 pm

Sönam wrote:
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
robaire wrote:it's confusing because you're placing trust in language, not feelings.


Putting one's faith in one's feelings would be better than trusting language? You quite sure here?


would'nt it be better to feel the language?

Sônam


"feel" the meaning?
Reminds me at the four reliances to avoid misunderstanding like "clinging" to "a" solid Guru out there.

Do not rely on the individual, rely on the Dharma.
Do not rely on the words, rely on the meaning.
Do not rely on the apparent meaning, rely on the definite meaning.
Do not rely on consciousness, rely on primordial wisdom.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby White Lotus » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:45 pm

pre-verbal thought... thinking through events using images/mental pictures without use of words. or, thinking with feelings, not words... both can be experienced as unique and effective.

best wishes, Tom.
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