Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:20 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Posts: 493
Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?

_________________
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:12 pm
Posts: 354
Fa Dao wrote:
Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?


Ideally a follower of dzogchen achieves full and complete liberation in this very body and lifetime, and is not reborn even in a pure land. However as the habitual obscurations accumulated since the beginning of time make this a somewhat rare event, the buddhas and masters of the past have provided those less fortunate with the practice of phowa in order to assure that one is reborn in a pure land, where one has ideal circumstances and is virtually guaranteed full awakening.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Fa Dao wrote:
Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?


viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3892&p=36028#p36028

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:07 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Fa Dao wrote:
Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?


Yes, the "Yeshe Lama" actually contains a lot of interesting details about this. Jigme Lingpa explains how to achieve rebirth in any pure land that you favor if you fail to gain realization at death.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
heart wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?


Yes, the "Yeshe Lama" actually contains a lot of interesting details about this. Jigme Lingpa explains how to achieve rebirth in any pure land that you favor if you fail to gain realization at death.

/magnus


Hi magnus,

I was looking to elaborate on the questions by Fa Dao.

From a Dzogchyen POV, does a sutra style Pure Land practitioner attain full Buddhahood? I did not think so, but am unsure.

In that link I provided, would you know how Namdrol used the term "wisdom display" in the context of bardo experience? I still do not see how they are correlated.

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:45 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Mr. G wrote:

Hi magnus,

I was looking to elaborate on the questions by Fa Dao.

From a Dzogchyen POV, does a sutra style Pure Land practitioner attain full Buddhahood? I did not think so, but am unsure.

In that link I provided, would you know how Namdrol used the term "wisdom display" in the context of bardo experience? I still do not see how they are correlated.


Hi Mr. G

I think that from the POV of Dzogchen all other yanas have to eventually practice Dzogchen in order to reach full enlightenment. This is because the non-elaborate and non-conceptual nature of Dzogchen practice that all other practices will in up there, in my understanding.

In the bardo, if you don't recognize you nature in the luminous bardo of dhamatha which is like the primordial pure ground then the sounds, rays and lights will arise along with the peaceful and wrathful manifestations and this is like the ground manifestations. I guess you can call that wisdom display.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Thanks magnus

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
heart wrote:

In the bardo, if you don't recognize you nature in the luminous bardo of dhamatha which is like the primordial pure ground then the sounds, rays and lights will arise along with the peaceful and wrathful manifestations and this is like the ground manifestations. I guess you can call that wisdom display.



Sounds, lights and rays are the bardo of dharmatā. If you do not recognize those, then you pass into the bardo of rebirth.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:09 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:

In the bardo, if you don't recognize you nature in the luminous bardo of dhamatha which is like the primordial pure ground then the sounds, rays and lights will arise along with the peaceful and wrathful manifestations and this is like the ground manifestations. I guess you can call that wisdom display.



Sounds, lights and rays are the bardo of dharmatā. If you do not recognize those, then you pass into the bardo of rebirth.

N


Yes, of course you are right. In the end of the painful bardo of dying there is the moment of the ground luminosity or the unfolding of primordial purity. The luminous bardo of dharmatha is the moment of the spontaneous presence, the manifestation of the sounds, rays and lights and the peaceful and wrathful manifestations.


/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: davyji and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group