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Dzogchen Study

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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby asunthatneversets » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:40 pm

Namdrol wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:

And also be keen on distinguishing Dzogchen from the lower vehicles. Don't get caught up in the bullshit.



Lower vehicles are not bullshit.

N


Whoa! Never said the lower vehicles are bullshit... What's going on in this thread?! I'm in the misconstrued twilight zone
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:56 pm

asunthatneversets wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:

And also be keen on distinguishing Dzogchen from the lower vehicles. Don't get caught up in the bullshit.



Lower vehicles are not bullshit.

N


Whoa! Never said the lower vehicles are bullshit... What's going on in this thread?! I'm in the misconstrued twilight zone



Your statement is not very clear.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby asunthatneversets » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:59 pm

I can see how you got that from what I wrote though. Both statements were meant to stand alone. Maybe an "and" in-between both would've been appropriate. Yes not very clear... But now clarified
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:08 pm

About H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and Dzogchen, there's also the Dalai Lama's commentary on the second volume of Longchenpa Rabjampa's Kindly Bent to Ease Us (Finding Comfort In Ease) that was briefly discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=5955&p=68329&hilit=Christmas#p68329
SARVA MANGALAM
Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings - Khunu Lama
Suddenly you will know the different knowledge without study - Thog-'bebs
One may now accomplish the welfare and instruction of all sentient beings, spontaneously and without effort, by simply being, that is to say, by manifesting one's enlightened nature through spontaneously emanating an infinity of Nirmanakaya manifestations - Vajranatha
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Sönam » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:35 pm

pemachophel wrote:Sonam-la,

Someone has already answered about H.H.'s being Gelugpa and a Dzogchen practitioner/Teacher. Are you suggesting being a monk is somehow antithetical to being a "real" Dzogchenpa?


Being a monk not ... being a Gelugpa possibly, because of particular Gelugpa's view about what is "real"

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:39 pm

Sönam wrote:
pemachophel wrote:Sonam-la,

Someone has already answered about H.H.'s being Gelugpa and a Dzogchen practitioner/Teacher. Are you suggesting being a monk is somehow antithetical to being a "real" Dzogchenpa?


Being a monk not ... being a Gelugpa possibly, because of particular Gelugpa's view about what is "real"

Sönam


Sonam,

Jigme Lingpa's Madhyamaka view was Gelug, as was Shabkar's -- so it is pretty clear that one can hold Gelug Madhyamaka view and still be a realized Dzogchen practitioner.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

"If you wish to see my display
look at a grove of various trees and plants."
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Virgo » Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:15 am

Yes, very clear. The precious jewel also (His Holliness the 14'th Dalai Lama), and surely many others.

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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Sönam » Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:08 am

Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Adamantine » Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:52 am

Sönam wrote:Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam


And what was your experience in your avatar photo?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Sönam » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:17 am

Adamantine wrote:
Sönam wrote:Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam


And what was your experience in your avatar photo?


It was not a discussion on the non conditionned :smile:

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Malcolm » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:42 pm

Sönam wrote:Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam



Well, a "Gelugpa", and a Gelug Dzogchen practitioner are entirely different animals. The former cannot be expected to understand Dzogchen.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

"If you wish to see my display
look at a grove of various trees and plants."
-- Tantra of The Great Self-liberated Vidyā
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby sangyey » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:50 pm

There's also a book called the Golden Letters with introduction by Namkhai Norbu and contains translations of Garab Dorje's 'Hitting the Essence in Three Words' and Patrul Rinpoche's commentary.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Golden-Letters-ebook/dp/B001W0Z9WQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1325015128&sr=1-1
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:42 pm

And the following books as well:

http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=256

http://www.shangshungpublications.org/2 ... malamitra/

http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/transpaper.htm ... ThreeLines

http://www.amazon.com/Lions-Gaze-Commen ... 1880975041

Haven't studied the above books yet, but what I've read so far of The Golden Letters by Vajranatha is really good too.
SARVA MANGALAM
Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings - Khunu Lama
Suddenly you will know the different knowledge without study - Thog-'bebs
One may now accomplish the welfare and instruction of all sentient beings, spontaneously and without effort, by simply being, that is to say, by manifesting one's enlightened nature through spontaneously emanating an infinity of Nirmanakaya manifestations - Vajranatha
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Re: Dzogchen Study

Postby Adamantine » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:55 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Sönam wrote:Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam



Well, a "Gelugpa", and a Gelug Dzogchen practitioner are entirely different animals. The former cannot be expected to understand Dzogchen.



Good point!
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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