Guardians of the Teaching

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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:17 am

Well, it seems that you failed to see that I was agreeing with you on all levels.

Since the conversation in this thread is based more on what people project about what they think that I am saying, rather than what I am actually saying, I believe it is time for me to withdraw.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Adamantine » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:22 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Well, it seems that you failed to see that I was agreeing with you on all levels.

Since the conversation in this thread is based more on what people project about what they think that I am saying, rather than what I am actually saying, I believe it is time for me to withdraw.
:namaste:



Sorry if I misinterpreted your last post, my friend. :namaste: I think we do pretty much agree... However, the cats out of the bag so to speak.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby alpha » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:47 am

The standard view is that when one does the practice of the guardians one has to follow certain rules .
It has to be done in evening because the protectors increase their power with the onset of night and because they belong to the nocturnal world.Tormas have to be offered and a proper nice altar prepared.
Wine and meat have to be present among the offerings.In one word you have to show them hospitality and welcome them with the finest offerings.

Why is it that in DC when doing TUN none of this is necessary?
Are the guardians still happy with us not offering anything whatsoever ?
AOM
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:06 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Equating illegal pornography with images of protectors just shows how much you like to exaggerate.
I did not equate illegal pornography with images of protectors, the point I was trying to make was that just because something is freely available does not make it's availability legitimate. I understand what you are saying, it does not mean that I agree with it, but could you please refrain from straw men and ad homs? Thank you.


Your example was a red herring.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:20 pm

alpha wrote:
Why is it that in DC when doing TUN none of this is necessary?
Are the guardians still happy with us not offering anything whatsoever ?


Do you really think Guardians think in such dualistic terms?

When you do medium thun for example, it is sufficient to visualize offerings. If you want to set them up, that is ok too. Whatever you have space and time for.

In general, there are only two things that you need for offerings (apart from the Ganapuja), according to my understanding of ChNN's intent: light and incense, and even these are not absolutely required.

If you like setting out water offerings, sense offering, medicine and blood, tormas and so on -- go for it -- but it is not absolutely necessary. After all, the universe is a torma according to the torma tantra.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Center Channel » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:31 pm

From a risk benefit scenario, how much better is working with the guardians than over SOV?

Guardians can kick your butt as stated by several others, and I would assume the SOV is an even a better method with no downside.

Noone needs to answer, I'm just thinking outloud...
Last edited by Center Channel on Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:41 pm

Center Channel wrote:From a risk benefit scenario, how much better is working with the guardians than over SOV?

(Guardians can kick your butt as stated by several others. )

Noone needs to answer, I'm just thinking outloud...



SOV is essential, guardian practice is merely important.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby alpha » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:50 pm

Namdrol wrote:
alpha wrote:
Why is it that in DC when doing TUN none of this is necessary?
Are the guardians still happy with us not offering anything whatsoever ?


Do you really think Guardians think in such dualistic terms?

When you do medium thun for example, it is sufficient to visualize offerings. If you want to set them up, that is ok too. Whatever you have space and time for.

In general, there are only two things that you need for offerings (apart from the Ganapuja), according to my understanding of ChNN's intent: light and incense, and even these are not absolutely required.

If you like setting out water offerings, sense offering, medicine and blood, tormas and so on -- go for it -- but it is not absolutely necessary. After all, the universe is a torma according to the torma tantra.

N


And i think that the practice of the guardians if done in a state of knowledge is the best offering one can make while the relative offerings are not that important and not really necessary .
AOM
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:58 pm

alpha wrote:
And i think that the practice of the guardians if done in a state of knowledge is the best offering one can make while the relative offerings are not that important and not really necessary .


Yes, that is correct.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:41 pm

Namdrol wrote:Your example was a red herring.
"Red herring is an idiomatic expression referring to the rhetorical or literary tactic of diverting attention away from an item of significance." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
I fail to see what I was trying to divert attention from. It was most definitely not my aim to do so. So maybe not quite a red herring.
This though:
red herring.jpg
red herring.jpg (5.96 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Is most defintiely a red herring!
:namaste:
PS Is there anywhere we can find a translation of the gtor lung che chung gi rgyud (Major and Minor Torma Tantra)? Thank you!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Guardians of the Teaching

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:51 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:PS Is there anywhere we can find a translation of the gtor lung che chung gi rgyud (Major and Minor Torma Tantra)? Thank you!



No, I do not think so.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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