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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:55 pm 
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oberon_rex wrote:
Really? If you respect him so much, if he is, in your opinion, one of the greatest Tibetan masters still alive, why don't you listen to what he says about transmission? Firstly, in terms of its efficacy via webcast and secondly about the importance of actually participating in it.
Quite simply? Well, just coz I respect somebody does not mean that I have to agree with everything they say.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:57 pm 
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As I understand it, the purpose of the webcast isn't to function as the medium for the direct introduction... It's just a means of coordinating things so we're participating at the same time as Rinpoche and in step with his pace. The webcast is only the medium for the reading transmissions for mantras and sadhanas.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Quite simply? Well, just coz I respect somebody does not mean that I have to agree with everything they say.


Of course, Greg. But are you really so mistrustful that you're not even willing to follow his advice and jump in and try? You won't regret it, I promise :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:11 pm 
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oberon_rex wrote:
Of course, Greg. But are you really so mistrustful that you're not even willing to follow his advice and jump in and try? You won't regret it, I promise :thumbsup:
I have already received transmissions from Namkhai Norbu via webcast, I haven't regreted it, it just didn't spin my dials. It may work for others, it just doesn't work for me! I prefer to receive transmissions from the live teachers I have access to (and, of course, I hope to receive live transmissions from Namkhai Norbu when/if he comes to greece next year).
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
You are getting lost in details and missing the essential here, mint. Simultaneous intention.


My apologies. Like I said earlier, I really have no basis for being so critical...so I should probably just shut up and get on with it. I don't know what I'm talking about as I am still learning the basics. I just wanted to express some concerns that have been running through my head lately. Even as I typed this stuff, I realized that my perception was tempered by ignorance. Just spouting stuff out in my typical lost cause fashion. I knew that experienced practitioners would help me gain some clarity of perspective.

I am sorry for expressing these doubts.


Last edited by mint on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Sorry for being critical, Greg. You should make your decisions based on your own observations of your condition. I'm sure seeing Rinpoche in Greece will be mind blowing!

The last thing I'll say, though, is that just because it didn't "spin your dials" doesn't mean you didn't receive transmission.

Peace.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Tashi delek,

When a Master has some students who he knows very good and they already did receive some initiations / teachings etc etc then contact over the webcam can be very usefull.

A webcam can function as a good add for studying etc. Also a Master can reach a student also by NOT using a webcam, so the use of a webcam can be used for a better understanding of the teachings. Further advantage would be that the costs can be reduced, a good resolution for both the Master and the students.........

So if a Master can watch the students and the students the Master then there is contact and when there is contact and that contact would not differ with a live performance.
Further example would be that if a Master is teaching in one room and some students are sitting in another room or on the other side of the wall and watch by the intervention of a screen the treachings, they still can be blessed etc.by the Master.

So i guess so that when one is not informed, convinced, about the qualifications or power of the Master, students may assume that wecam transmissions and teachings cannot happen or take place.

For a qualified Master and a devoted student, distance does not count because the mind does not know obstructions from walls, etc. So for me a Master is able to give transmissions over/via webcam if the student is a good vessel to receive and devotion can cause wonders..........................

But sure for persons who need an object within a radiance of 14 meters, they would have problems with wecam teachings, initiations etc.


Mutsog Marro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:37 pm 
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oberon_rex wrote:
The last thing I'll say, though, is that just because it didn't "spin your dials" doesn't mean you didn't receive transmission.
Oh, I am well aware of this. "Unfortunately" after receiving transmissions that did "spin my dials" then, well, the web cam transmission was kind of dull really! Dull... I don't know if that is the right word. Basically, I feel much "better" when in the physical presence of the teacher. I think you understand what I am saying.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:45 pm 
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mint wrote:
Since attending and "participating" in the webcast, I've earnestly begun my ChNNR fanboy phase whereupon I devour his books and DVDs, join his fan club (the Community), and hope to attend a retreat in the near future. Still, in the back of my mind, I find the whole process to be farcical. I find the whole idea absurd. I mean, none of this stuff makes him my root guru, none of this gets me any closer to realization.

Sure since realization is totally up to you.

Quote:
The man doesn't care about me, personally, or my progress.

Rinpoche cares about every sentient being and certainly all his students and their progress. Just because most of us don't/can't have regular contact with him doesn't mean it isn't so.

As for webcast transmissions... We've talked about it in the past already so I don't feel like talking about it much again. I'll just say that during the two years of listening to webcasts only before meeting Rinpoche in person I had some signs of practice. And then after I met Rinpoche I also had some signs of practice for something I also received "just" through webcast. (perhaps ironically I actually practice(d) more the things I received through webcast than in person)
So if the transmission didn't work I don't think there would be any signs. And it should be needless to say that if it didn't work Rinpoche wouldn't be doing it. But certainly if you doubt it then perhaps it's pointless to participate in this way. Much better to try to attend "in person".

GregKavarnos wrote:
So I follow the teaching part of the webcasts and leave out the transmissions, ie I do not allow my scpeticism about webcast transmission to dissuade me from learning from one of the greatest Tibetan masters still alive.

I'm sorry Greg but I find this rather silly. What exactly do you listen to then?

mint wrote:
Do I have transmission? I may have transmission according to the parameters of the Dzogchen Community, but that license doesn't exactly extend beyond the boundaries of that community.

What happens when ChNNR has his pariniravana?

You go to another Dzogchen master and say, "Master, I am a Dzogchen practitioner."
And he says, "Have you completed the Sems dzin?"
"Well, no, master, I have not but I am DC member #...."
"Have you completed the korday rushan?"
"Well, no, master, I have not but I am DC member #...."
"Have you completed ngondro?"
"Well, no, master, I have not but I am DC member #...."

I think you see my point.

I don't because all these things depend totally on you and not Rinpoche or Dzogchen Community.

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I am sorry for expressing these doubts.

Why? I think it's better to talk about them than hold them in. That wouldn't lead to anything good.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Pero wrote:
I'm sorry Greg but I find this rather silly. What exactly do you listen to then?
"Silly"? I thought I was pretty clear, I follow the teachings that precede (which are normally of a more general nature anyway) but not the transmissions of the practices.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:05 pm 
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I think how you feel after transmission depends on your mindset and circumstances. I have attended a few transmissions at the local gar and the first couple were mildly disappointing because I wanted (A) to really feel something, (B) I was thoroughly annoyed they told us of the little surprise that was to come (where is the surprise in that?!), (C) it seemed like the organizers were kind of a mess (but there were A LOT of people who showed up).

Around the 3rd time, I expected to feel uncomfortable and annoyed by the hectic beginning, the crowded room and the technological glitches that always happen, so I decided beforehand no matter what happens to keep relaxed and open to receive and to really focus, despite anything and everything. This one went better.

Then, I went on a retreat with Namkhai Norbu and received transmission in person. Well, in person as part of a large crowd in front of him personally rather than in front of a projector screen. I felt like I got it then, but to be honest I don't even recall this experience. So, what does that say?

I attended another 1 or possibly 2 transmissions after this back again at my local gar and they seem to get a little better each time. I find now that it is really difficult not to sit there in anticipation for the "shock" and I still wish the first time this happened I didn't know it was coming. Probably why I get so tense about it to this day.

On every occasion, however, I have left for home feeling tremendously relaxed and free of any concerns. It's like a warm blanket around me and I always try to really make that last, but somehow it always flits away somehow. It may last a couple hours or a couple days, though. Maybe it would last longer if I did more practice afterward. :shrug:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:12 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Pero wrote:
I'm sorry Greg but I find this rather silly. What exactly do you listen to then?
"Silly"? I thought I was pretty clear, I follow the teachings that precede (which are normally of a more general nature anyway) but not the transmissions of the practices.
:namaste:

Well yeah, how can you do that? There are practically no days that Rinpoche isn't giving some kind of transmission except for the first day.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Whatever dude!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:19 pm 
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mint wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:
You are getting lost in details and missing the essential here, mint. Simultaneous intention.


My apologies. Like I said earlier, I really have no basis for being so critical...so I should probably just shut up and get on with it. I don't know what I'm talking about as I am still learning the basics. I just wanted to express some concerns that have been running through my head lately. Even as I typed this stuff, I realized that my perception was tempered by ignorance. Just spouting stuff out in my typical lost cause fashion. I knew that experienced practitioners would help me gain some clarity of perspective.

I am sorry for expressing these doubts.

Never be sorry for expressing your doubts! :lol:
One can't practice based on hypocrisy. Perhaps you have no basis for those doubts, but I find them quite natural. They are there. All doubts come from ignorance. But better ignorant for five minutes then dumb for an entire life. The fact is that those thoughts nag you. Trust is a slowly built edifice, mostly when we haven't studied or practiced for a long time. Having some peace of mind is quite important to lead our life. By speaking plainly, people get advice and overcome obstacles if they practice, study, listen carefully to good teachers.
By posting your concerns you allow others to give you a helping hand and then you can overcome these obstacles by yourself. I'm quite sure that there are many students who share your doubts or similar ones, ChNN's students or otherwise. Some don't speak because they feel ashamed or don't want anyone to doubt their teacher, whom they force themselves to see as flawless and so on and so forth. The best way to clarify doubts is asking, studying, practicing and, when needed talking to the teacher. Pretending they aren't there is not very wise. But we also should do an effort to overcome them by our own effort and not always going in circles about the same things. There comes a time when we have enough trust and already engaged in practice and we can't chase any nagging thought that appears. When we have a solid tawa, a solid gompa is at reach. By not having a solid tawa, who knows what will pop in our minds and the effects it will have? Having a good basis and good understanding of the methods is important.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:50 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Whatever dude!

:shrug:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:56 pm 
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It means that there is no value in taking this conversation any further because what I do is irrelevant to you and what you think I should do is irrelevant to me. So instead of having a pointless discussion (which may progress into a pointless argument) with you I decided to end the conversation.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:28 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
It means that there is no value in taking this conversation any further because what I do is irrelevant to you and what you think I should do is irrelevant to me. So instead of having a pointless discussion (which may progress into a pointless argument) with you I decided to end the conversation.
:namaste:


Yes, but you could try to do that politely. :thanks:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:50 pm 
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What are you, Pero's lawyer or something?
:focus:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:15 pm 
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I have no experience of the teacher in question, but it may be more appropriate simply to rejoice that the new media enable such a teacher to reach so many people.

I believe that a person may establish a strong affinity with a teacher remotely and as Greg has said, it can also encourage a person to attend a live event.

The impact such an experience may have on an individual is not something easily measurable, surely. After all, if pure intentions and pure teachings are given and received, our minds determine how we benefit.

It's exactly the same with a 'live' initiation, isn't it? Sometimes we may not make a strong connection with the teacher, the deity or even both, as they are so tightly bound together.

One of the perils of desiring an empowerment in order to perform a particular practice is that the choice of Guru may become secondary. At least the media available to us enable us to form some connection, possible even a strong one.

I can only relate that I have attended some 'live and present' initiations where I felt empowered but not inspired.

Equally, I have experienced an initiation over the web which felt every bit as valid as many 'live' initiations, but I admit it helped greatly to have received several 'live' ones as there was some familiarity.

One Rinpoche whose instructions I attended purely from interest decided to give an empowerment for those who wished it . It blew me away, yet that was true only for a handful of people there.

So for me, I feel that there are many benefits, but the outcome for those who feel nothing from a remote experience is just as legitimate - we really don't need to declare a universal 'best'.

As they say in India: 'Same, same.........but different! ' LOL :)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:23 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
What are you, Pero's lawyer or something?
:focus:


Just someone noticing a pattern.


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