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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:47 am 
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As discussions learned me that I am the fool, the only fool, as I must be there so that you can follow.... :tongue:
No any idea whats' wrong with Buddha's other teachings. :shrug:

Few lines for our clarification...or not, as in words themselves is no clarity, like is there written:

http://books.google.be/books?id=sf88HpI ... te&f=false

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:16 am 
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we are back to the old discussion, The Battle of Hernani ...
What Yontan says, and try to confirm Muni, is that there is no need of any statue, altar and so on, because the Dzogchen teachings state that all being already perfect in his own nature, why would we generate Tara or need a altar-reminder ? ... would you look at a photo of you, each morning, to remember what character you are in this life ?
As for GuruYoga, the white A processus is not necessary, it's only a "mental" tool ... the advantage of this tool is that it's a very swift one a bit like a Phat.
But I do not want to argue ... again.

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:20 am 
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Your Protestant Buddhist version of Dzogchen don't turn me on at all. :smile:

/magnus

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:45 pm 
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heart wrote:

I am not exactly sure what you try to say, but your previous statement is a negation. A statue is a symbol, like a vajra or a painting of a white Ah. Considering the meaning of these symbols the idea of having an altar makes perfect sense and if one have an altar it is a good idea to take care of it. If you don't want an altar it doesn't make you more Dzogchen.

/magnus


Oh my goodness, we seem to be getting further and further away. To be clear, I do have an altar, and there are shrine objects including statues on it. And I do practice sadhana. Tara among them even.

Please go back to the OP and reread the question. The answers are in the Mahayoga teachings. To borrow your phrase, trying to help someone relate to their yidam in a dzogchen way doesn't make anyone more dzogchen. Relating to your sadhana in a way that connects your current view with the path may someday make you "more dzogchen." There are plenty of teachings on how to integrate sadhana with dzogchen meditation, view and conduct, but dzogchen view, meditation and conduct themselves aren't particularly involved in sadhana practice. I hope that's a little more clear.

At any rate, it seems PN has been satisfied for now.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Anyone here work for Tsegyalgar or any of the gars? People who work around the shrines must be given some instruction for their maintenance.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Yontan wrote:
heart wrote:

I am not exactly sure what you try to say, but your previous statement is a negation. A statue is a symbol, like a vajra or a painting of a white Ah. Considering the meaning of these symbols the idea of having an altar makes perfect sense and if one have an altar it is a good idea to take care of it. If you don't want an altar it doesn't make you more Dzogchen.

/magnus


Oh my goodness, we seem to be getting further and further away. To be clear, I do have an altar, and there are shrine objects including statues on it. And I do practice sadhana. Tara among them even.

Please go back to the OP and reread the question. The answers are in the Mahayoga teachings. To borrow your phrase, trying to help someone relate to their yidam in a dzogchen way doesn't make anyone more dzogchen. Relating to your sadhana in a way that connects your current view with the path may someday make you "more dzogchen." There are plenty of teachings on how to integrate sadhana with dzogchen meditation, view and conduct, but dzogchen view, meditation and conduct themselves aren't particularly involved in sadhana practice. I hope that's a little more clear.

At any rate, it seems PN has been satisfied for now.


I just reacted to your statement "from the Dzogchen perspective, there is no basis for relating to Tara" which I think isn't at all based on facts. It is seems to be the heart the Protestant Buddhist version of Dzogchen. I wasn't really discussing methods of practice.

/magnus

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:50 am 
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You did, I agree.
Words are fun, aren't they?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:22 pm 
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A teaching by a simple monk:

A ginger tea and a buttertea was on the table. He took a long glass with transparant clear ginger tea. He said:

"look here from above, all is seen clearly brightful and nothing is to add when we see this.

Butter tea is perfect as well ! Drink slowly, but drink now while it is hot.

Do not mix, practice what is given by your master".

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:29 pm 
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Ay yi yi.

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"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Ask a simple question (In a Dzogchen forum for crying out loud? Are you insane?) get a whole lot of emotional fallout! :tongue:

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