Dzogchen Monk?

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Dzogchen Monk?

Postby wisdom » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:47 am

What is the best way to become a Dzogchen Monk? My only ambition in life is to follow the path of the Bodhisattva and to be a spiritual teacher for others, so naturally I want to cut away the distractions of western living and focus all my time, energy and life to achieving realization so that I may do this.

If anyone has any resources or themselves can point the way for me to do this it would be much appreciated, here or in PM. If there happens to be anyone on this board who is affiliated with a monastery and could lead me down the path to becoming a member there, I would happily share with that individual through PM my spiritual history, why I have decided to do this, my current lifestyle, and why ultimately I feel that there is nothing more worthwhile I could do with my life.

Thanks in advance for any help given. And if none is given, there's always plan B, C and D :D
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby heart » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:55 am

wisdom wrote:What is the best way to become a Dzogchen Monk? My only ambition in life is to follow the path of the Bodhisattva and to be a spiritual teacher for others, so naturally I want to cut away the distractions of western living and focus all my time, energy and life to achieving realization so that I may do this.

If anyone has any resources or themselves can point the way for me to do this it would be much appreciated, here or in PM. If there happens to be anyone on this board who is affiliated with a monastery and could lead me down the path to becoming a member there, I would happily share with that individual through PM my spiritual history, why I have decided to do this, my current lifestyle, and why ultimately I feel that there is nothing more worthwhile I could do with my life.

Thanks in advance for any help given. And if none is given, there's always plan B, C and D :D


You become a Nyingma monk because there is no such thing as a Dzogchen monk. All the monk/nun precepts belong to the lower yanas. The Nyingma practice all the nine yanas where Dzogchen is an integral part. There is a fantastic example for you, Dilgo Khyentses close student Mattieau Ricard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthieu_Ricard

/magnus
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:57 pm

wisdom wrote:My only ambition in life is ... to be a spiritual teacher for others,


Big Ego Trip.

Best to give it up.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby dakini_boi » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:02 pm

Namdrol wrote:
wisdom wrote:My only ambition in life is ... to be a spiritual teacher for others,


Big Ego Trip.

Best to give it up.


Possibly. Still, the aspiration is not entirely without virtue.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Virgo » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:29 pm

wisdom wrote:What is the best way to become a Dzogchen Monk?

You don't have to be a monk, nor is it really that much better for your practice necessarily if you are, nor does it ensure that you will get more teachings. As a monk you likely won't have an income and therefore won't always be able to travel to get teachings.

There are the other drawbacks as well.

Kevin
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:02 pm

And as Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche wrote: as a monk you would be spending a lot of time performing ritual duties and other duties; leaving not very much time to practice Dzogchen (i.e Rushen, Semdzin, etc.)

The Paths of the Ngakpa and Dzogchenpa are more conducive to the "Fourth Way" (householders whose Sadhana includes aspects of the Path of the Monk but also goes beyond it) anyhow. :idea:
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:47 pm

wisdom wrote:My only ambition in life is to follow the path of the Bodhisattva and to be a spiritual teacher for others


If you are genuinely moved by the suffering of others and are purely motivated to help them to develop wisdom, what a wonderful aspiration!

Buddha himself had such as wish, so I pray that you will fulfil your ambitions.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby wisdom » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:53 am

heart wrote:
You become a Nyingma monk because there is no such thing as a Dzogchen monk. All the monk/nun precepts belong to the lower yanas. The Nyingma practice all the nine yanas where Dzogchen is an integral part. There is a fantastic example for you, Dilgo Khyentses close student Mattieau Ricard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthieu_Ricard

/magnus


Thanks heart, your replies are always helpful, informative, and to the point!
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby pemachophel » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:55 am

Congratulations on wanting to become a monk. That's a wonderful aspiration. There is absolutely no incompatibility between being a monk and a Dzogchenpa -- none whatsoever. Take as your example the lately departed Trulshik Rinpoche. Good luck and best wishes on making this aspiration a reality.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Virgo » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:31 am

pemachophel wrote:Congratulations on wanting to become a monk. That's a wonderful aspiration. There is absolutely no incompatibility between being a monk and a Dzogchenpa -- none whatsoever. Take as your example the lately departed Trulshik Rinpoche. Good luck and best wishes on making this aspiration a reality.

For most people, it just means they are going to break more vows.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Jnana » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:36 am

pemachophel wrote:Congratulations on wanting to become a monk. That's a wonderful aspiration. There is absolutely no incompatibility between being a monk and a Dzogchenpa -- none whatsoever. Take as your example the lately departed Trulshik Rinpoche. Good luck and best wishes on making this aspiration a reality.

Indeed. Best wishes Wisdom. If this is what you really need to do then don't pay too much attention to any naysayers on an internet forum.

Lhug-Pa wrote:And as Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche wrote: as a monk you would be spending a lot of time performing ritual duties and other duties; leaving not very much time to practice Dzogchen (i.e Rushen, Semdzin, etc.)

While this can be the case in Tibetan monasteries in the East, it isn't true for all Western Tibetan monasteries. For example, the schedule at Gampo Abbey includes 4.5 hrs of silent group sitting or solitary practice (depending one what one's practice is) every morning, then 4 hrs of work in the afternoon, and all evening for more solitary practice. Plus a full day silent nyinthün every Sunday and a full seven week Yarne rains retreat every year, as well as additional individual solitary retreat in a private cabin and another silent house retreat each year.

Lhug-Pa wrote:The Paths of the Ngakpa and Dzogchenpa are more conducive to the "Fourth Way" (householders whose Sadhana includes aspects of the Path of the Monk but also goes beyond it) anyhow.

Karma Chagme says otherwise.


:buddha1:
Last edited by Jnana on Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby wisdom » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:23 am

Namdrol wrote:
wisdom wrote:My only ambition in life is ... to be a spiritual teacher for others,


Big Ego Trip.

Best to give it up.


Thanks Namdrol, this is sage advice. I considered it seriously and deeply today, because I largely actually have no ego, and I concluded that in a sense you are right. My Bodhicitta was not pure, so I rearranged my thoughts about it and my mental view towards it. It would be safer to say that my desire is to follow the path of the Bodhisattva so that I can become pure enough that I can become worthy of teaching the Dharma, and in that situation I can make myself open and available for whatever it is I must do to help, aid, or assist others on their path. It wont be for me to decide, the Bodhisattva does not decide for himself what others need, he acts based on their need and their need alone. Selfless service cannot have a self centered goal, even one disguised as selflessness. Whatever the "I" wants, it wants for itself.

I had never stated these intentions before, so nobody has ever had the chance to say this and so I've never had the impact of considering from an outside perspective that my ideas might be wrong. I've considered the matter from this angle before, and even renounced the idea before, but I've had it thrown back in my face again and again, so I've kept it around as a handy motivation for the path. Yet now I see its not for me to decide. Once I'm Enlightened the needs of others will decide for me, and if I've actually achieved my goal, I will not only be able to meet those needs but will gladly do it whatever they are, in whatever capacity, and regardless of how they view me or even if they are aware of my help.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby wisdom » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:25 am

Virgo wrote:
wisdom wrote:What is the best way to become a Dzogchen Monk?

You don't have to be a monk, nor is it really that much better for your practice necessarily if you are, nor does it ensure that you will get more teachings. As a monk you likely won't have an income and therefore won't always be able to travel to get teachings.

There are the other drawbacks as well.

Kevin


Well I don't have the income to travel anyways, so I figured maybe I would benefit more from being surrounded by Monks and having access to people who know more than I do. Something to consider though. Theres not much online that I've found in requires to DIY Monk or "How to become a monk" that is very useful!
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby wisdom » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:35 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:And as Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche wrote: as a monk you would be spending a lot of time performing ritual duties and other duties; leaving not very much time to practice Dzogchen (i.e Rushen, Semdzin, etc.)

The Paths of the Ngakpa and Dzogchenpa are more conducive to the "Fourth Way" (householders whose Sadhana includes aspects of the Path of the Monk but also goes beyond it) anyhow. :idea:


This is interesting and something I will have to consider as well. What I don't want is my progress to be slower because I am not able to maximize my time. As it stands I work 35-40 hours a week and spend most of my free time in contemplation, meditation or study. I spend my time in the world practicing things like openness, compassion, and peaceful abiding. I try to use every spare moment, so if that would be lost to engage in ritual duties, I would probably not be very happy unless those rituals were somehow a vehicle for enlightenment themselves.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby wisdom » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:46 am

Jnana wrote:While this can be the case in Tibetan monasteries in the East, it isn't true for all Western Tibetan monasteries. For example, the schedule at Gampo Abbey includes 4.5 hrs of silent group sitting or solitary practice (depending one what one's practice is) every morning, then 4 hrs of work in the afternoon, and all evening for more solitary practice. Plus a full day silent nyinthün every Sunday and a full seven week Yarne rains retreat every year, as well as additional individual solitary retreat in a private cabin and another silent house retreat each year.

:buddha1:


Well this is something to consider as well. Within a year I could afford to stay there for at least a year, and a year from now I will have become well established in my newly found Dzogchen practices so it will be easy for me to just focus on that. If I waited two years, and I'm sure this place will still exist then, I might even be able to afford a three year or more retreat by then. I'm only 28 so I have time. I want to get this figured out by the time I'm 30' then spend 3-5 years in retreat. Yet who knows perhaps I will have accumulated enough merit by then that something else even better will come along.

Thanks Jnana this is good to know about.

And thanks everyone else so far in this thread, all your advice is being taken seriously and I appreciate the help in figuring out what will be best for me in the long term.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:09 pm

wisdom wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
wisdom wrote:My only ambition in life is ... to be a spiritual teacher for others,


Big Ego Trip.

Best to give it up.


Thanks Namdrol, this is sage advice.


The first principle is: anyone who thinks of being a teacher, must first understand there are many teachers superior to him or herself. So in this case, better to send prospective students to one's own or another teacher.

If in the end it turns out that someone really cannot enter the dharma without your help, then and only then is it really necessary for you to act as a teacher. Then it does not become an ego trip.

But even in this case, if you do not have sufficient knowledge, understanding and pratical experience, you really cannot help others, you will only harm them.

In this case, it is better not to teach, even if there are no other teachers available.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:32 pm

Namdrol wrote:But even in this case, if you do not have sufficient knowledge, understanding and pratical experience, you really cannot help others, you will only harm them.

In this case, it is better not to teach, even if there are no other teachers available.

N


I disagree with this. It's important for living beings to receive the Dharma and the more Teachers there are, the better. It seems to me that the OPs motivation is a good one and even though he says his bodhichitta is not pure, someone with compassion and a good understanding of the Dharma can help others, even if they only read from Dharma books by well established authors. You don't have to be a Buddha to be a Teacher.

Even animals can benefit from hearing the sounds of holy Dharma, so it's not wrong to teach if your motivation is good.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:41 pm

Tsongkhapafan wrote:
Even animals can benefit from hearing the sounds of holy Dharma, so it's not wrong to teach if your motivation is good.



An unqualified physican is the enemy of his patients, doing more harm than good.

Likewise, an unqualified dharma teacher is a mara for his students, sending both himself and his students to hell.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Clarence » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:47 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:
Even animals can benefit from hearing the sounds of holy Dharma, so it's not wrong to teach if your motivation is good.



An unqualified physican is the enemy of his patients, doing more harm than good.

Likewise, an unqualified dharma teacher is a mara for his students, sending both himself and his students to hell.

N


Namdrol,

When do you consider someone qualified? Of course it depends on what they are teachings but I am sure some generalizations can be made.
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Re: Dzogchen Monk?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:50 pm

Clarence wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:
Even animals can benefit from hearing the sounds of holy Dharma, so it's not wrong to teach if your motivation is good.



An unqualified physican is the enemy of his patients, doing more harm than good.

Likewise, an unqualified dharma teacher is a mara for his students, sending both himself and his students to hell.

N


Namdrol,

When do you consider someone qualified? Of course it depends on what they are teachings but I am sure some generalizations can be made.


They should be educated in the five major sciences, sutra, tantra, have done retreats, have gained some measure of signs of experience, skilled in giving explanations, in addition to having bodhicitta, and so on.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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