Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Josef · Post by **Josef** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:00 pm

I like Tony's translations.
This thread inspired me to buy his Yeshe Lama translation along with a couple more that I didnt already have.
I highly recommend his translation of the Longchen Nyingthig Chod text and commentaries.

kalden yungdrung · Post by **kalden yungdrung** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:04 pm

Tashi delek,

Could not obtain /order the book because there was no payment with Pay Pal possible.
Well, maybe can one of you, offer to us an alternative, to get it in our foundation's library?

Please let me know asap, your welcome suggestions

Mutsog Marro
KY

padma norbu · Post by **padma norbu** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:14 pm

Based on what Namdrol has said, it does seem strange to me that this material is available to read and study, but people won't discuss it with you because it is secret and discussion is breaking samaya.

Also, it seems strange that nobody has provided me a link to one of these pdfs yet!

kalden yungdrung · Post by **kalden yungdrung** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:19 pm

padma norbu wrote:Based on what Namdrol has said, it does seem strange to me that this material is available to read and study, but people won't discuss it with you because it is secret and discussion is breaking samaya.

Tashi delek,

Could it be that if one has finished a Dzogchen Cycle of teachings, that one can at least understand all other Dzogchen Cycles?

At least i can hardly see a big difference between the many Dzogchen Cycles i know, as well the Indian ones as well the Zhang Zhung ones........

Mutsog Marro
KY

padma norbu · Post by **padma norbu** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:24 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Based on what Namdrol has said, it does seem strange to me that this material is available to read and study, but people won't discuss it with you because it is secret and discussion is breaking samaya.

Tashi delek,

Could it be that if one has finished a Dzogchen Cycle of teachings, that one can at least understand all other Dzogchen Cycles?

At least i can hardly see a difference between the many Dzogchen Cycles i know, as well the Indian ones as well the Zhang Zhung ones........

Mutsog Marro
KY

It could very well be. But, what does that have to do with what I said (what you quoted and replied to)? I'm just saying that it seems if the material is all out there in the open to be found online, what difference does it make if you talk about it? I know jack squat about thogal because nobody will say anything about it. I'm going to go Googling for thogal pdfs now...

Well, I was happy to find this:
http://tibetanbuddhism.tribe.net/thread ... 0fedf0092a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, now I have SOME idea what it's all about. Nice to finally have a clue since Sonam and others are frequently mentioning "the light."

kalden yungdrung · Post by **kalden yungdrung** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:36 pm

padma norbu wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Based on what Namdrol has said, it does seem strange to me that this material is available to read and study, but people won't discuss it with you because it is secret and discussion is breaking samaya.

Tashi delek,

Could it be that if one has finished a Dzogchen Cycle of teachings, that one can at least understand all other Dzogchen Cycles?

At least i can hardly see a difference between the many Dzogchen Cycles i know, as well the Indian ones as well the Zhang Zhung ones........

Mutsog Marro
KY
It could very well be. But, what does that have to do with what I said (what you quoted and replied to)? I'm just saying that it seems if the material is all out there in the open to be found online, what difference does it make if you talk about it? I know jack squat about thogal because nobody will say anything about it. I'm going to go Googling for thogal pdfs now...

Tashi delek,

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry, yes i did mis it, the real meaning of the words. I was realy misunderstood about your quote, namely i did understood it would be normal that such books would be more or less restricted..... but you explained the opposite,also ok.

Yes by the way about Thodgal are also a lot of books and we have some of them in our library and here it is also that if one is wellknown in one Dzogchen cycle one sees the similarities in other cycles as well.

Mutsog marro
KY

Josef · Post by **Josef** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:37 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek,

Could not obtain /order the book because there was no payment with Pay Pal possible.
Well, maybe can one of you, offer to us an alternative, to get it in our foundation's library?

Please let me know asap, your welcome suggestions

Mutsog Marro
KY

You have to send them an email and express your qualifications.

kalden yungdrung · Post by **kalden yungdrung** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:39 pm

Nangwa wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek,

Could not obtain /order the book because there was no payment with Pay Pal possible.
Well, maybe can one of you, offer to us an alternative, to get it in our foundation's library?

Please let me know asap, your welcome suggestions

Mutsog Marro
KY
You have to send them an email and express your qualifications.

Tashi delek,

Thanks for the hint.

What qualifications are here meant?

Mutsog Marro
KY

Josef · Post by **Josef** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:53 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Nangwa wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek,

Could not obtain /order the book because there was no payment with Pay Pal possible.
Well, maybe can one of you, offer to us an alternative, to get it in our foundation's library?

Please let me know asap, your welcome suggestions

Mutsog Marro
KY
You have to send them an email and express your qualifications.
Tashi delek,

Thanks for the hint.

What qualifications are here meant?

Mutsog Marro
KY

They want to know that you have received the teachings and that you are actually seriously working with the practice.
I dont think they would want it to be used in a library.

padma norbu · Post by **padma norbu** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:32 pm

Nangwa wrote: They want to know that you have received the teachings and that you are actually seriously working with the practice.
I dont think they would want it to be used in a library.

Think I could fool 'em with, "Oh yeah, I received the teachings!" and "Oh yeah, I'm super serious about working with this practice!"

No, but seriously, after reading the link I posted above, I wonder just how difficult it is to get a guru to spend time working with you like this. I'm thinking quite difficult.

Josef · Post by **Josef** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:21 pm

padma norbu wrote:
No, but seriously, after reading the link I posted above, I wonder just how difficult it is to get a guru to spend time working with you like this. I'm thinking quite difficult.

Not really. You establish the relationship with the teacher, receive the teachings, put them into practice, and maintain contact with the teacher.

deepbluehum · Post by **deepbluehum** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:56 pm

I realize this thread is about Triyik Yeshe Lama, but the Bonpo Dzogchen practitioner might be interested to know that the Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen text translated as "Heartdrops of the Dharmakaya" is a very useful instruction that covers all the same topics covered in Yeshe Lama, but has the nice feature of not being wordy and being very down to earth. Of course there are those who will disagree, but I feel the description of the view in the section on Trekcho is very good. I have had the transmissions of many Dzogchen texts and I find myself coming back to "Heartdrops" more and more, especially as my practice develops, I find its simplicity to be easy to read when you need a short glance and don't want to get too heady into information.

padma norbu · Post by **padma norbu** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:10 pm

Nangwa wrote:
padma norbu wrote:
No, but seriously, after reading the link I posted above, I wonder just how difficult it is to get a guru to spend time working with you like this. I'm thinking quite difficult.
Not really. You establish the relationship with the teacher, receive the teachings, put them into practice, and maintain contact with the teacher.

Well, that's not what the guy described. He said it's a feeling out process like picking a lock, so you have to have the guru there to guide you as you begin to experiment with thogal. This seems quite difficult. I can barely get Namkhai Norbu on an email and he has thousands of students. If he only taught 50 students thogal, according to this description, it would be very time-consuming. How many gurus are there on the planet who can teach thogal and have time to sit with a student and teach him to "pick the lock?"

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:10 pm

padma norbu wrote:I know jack squat about thogal because nobody will say anything about it. I'm going to go Googling for thogal pdfs now...

Thogal practice is discussed in Naked Awareness and Heartdrops of Dharmakaya. There's also a little bit in Vivid Awareness.

Josef · Post by **Josef** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:15 pm

padma norbu wrote:
Nangwa wrote:
padma norbu wrote:
No, but seriously, after reading the link I posted above, I wonder just how difficult it is to get a guru to spend time working with you like this. I'm thinking quite difficult.
Not really. You establish the relationship with the teacher, receive the teachings, put them into practice, and maintain contact with the teacher.
Well, that's not what the guy described. He said it's a feeling out process like picking a lock, so you have to have the guru there to guide you as you begin to experiment with thogal. This seems quite difficult. I can barely get Namkhai Norbu on an email and he has thousands of students. If he only taught 50 students thogal, according to this description, it would be very time-consuming. How many gurus are there on the planet who can teach thogal and have time to sit with a student and teach him to "pick the lock?"

I dont know what to tell you then. My experience has been different.
No "lock-picking" required.

padma norbu · Post by **padma norbu** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:31 pm

Paul wrote:
padma norbu wrote:I know jack squat about thogal because nobody will say anything about it. I'm going to go Googling for thogal pdfs now...
Thogal practice is discussed in Naked Awareness and Heartdrops of Dharmakaya. There's also a little bit in Vivid Awareness.

Thanks, I have both books. Just read Vivid Awareness a few months ago and don't actually remember anything.

Seeing Heartdrops of Dharmakaya mentioned so many times in this thread means I need to take another look at that book. I started reading that several years ago and all I remember was filling up the sky with blue hums or something and I thought, "yeah, okayyyy... I have enough practices similar to that already" (or so I thought at the time, this seed syllable visualization stuff all being rather strange to me back then)

Nangwa wrote:I dont know what to tell you then. My experience has been different.
No "lock-picking" required.

For not knowing what to tell me, you said exactly the right thing. I was just trying to ascertain if this guy knew what he was talking about. It seems that his theory is conjecture, not from personal experience.

deepbluehum · Post by **deepbluehum** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 pm

Dzogchen is an open secret. It is self-secret. The texts and teachers are here, there, all over, and within. But, even though these are displayed very openly, the meaning and practice might go right over your head. What you do get, you should practice. Then, slowly your mind opens more and more, and you gain the capacity to ask the pertinent questions that cut to the heart of the teachings. At that time, even if the instruction is not called "togal," you will understand the meaning this profound practice, for which, there do not exist examples. You must bring yourself to a level experience, then, this clear light mastery will be your life forever.

padma norbu · Post by **padma norbu** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:44 pm

Quick update: apparently Tony Duff offered me a connection to thogal teachings in his initial email and I did not understand this is what he was offering. I just thought he was refusing to sell me the material on grounds that I did not meet the proper criteria/requirements.

I just wanted to read about thogal, not jump right in and start practicing. But, you may want to!

Josef · Post by **Josef** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:01 pm

padma norbu wrote:Quick update: apparently Tony Duff offered me a connection to thogal teachings in his initial email and I did not understand this is what he was offering. I just thought he was refusing to sell me the material on grounds that I did not meet the proper criteria/requirements.

I just wanted to read about thogal, not jump right in and start practicing. But, you may want to!

I bought his translation a couple weeks ago.
Its good and he gives a of clarifying info on the translation in the notes.

Jnana · Post by **Jnana** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:17 pm

Namdrol wrote:All this business of "restricted books" is elitist bullshit. Gyurme Dorje's translation of Longchenpa's commentary of Guhyagarbha is avaialble for free and to anyone with a browser.

Every classical Dzogchen text can be read by anyone who knows Tibetan and can downloaded for free from TBRC.

The time has passed for so called "restricted translations".

While I respect the right of a given terton to maintain brand control over his treasures, in terms of classical literature, there should be no more "restricted" texts. Its a bunch of bullshit, and these days it is perpetuated mostly by westerners.

You can read all about togal on the internet.

I own many texts about togal, hundreds of them. No one asked me for my credentials to buy them. Many I downloaded. Others I bought in Tibet. Others I had shipped from India.

It is appalling that books in Tibetan that freely available to anyone with a buck can are "restricted" in English.

Things will be changing soon, I guarantee it.

Indeed. There have been translations and commentaries on all aspects of togal available for purchase and for free on the internet for years now.

Dharma Wheel

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