Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators
Virgo wrote:padma norbu wrote:Did you ever read much of his work or actually work his system? I've often thought about the very obvious Vajrayana influence on his work and wonder exactly where it came from. That wasn't the kind of Buddhism he studied. Some of the stuff he came up with reminds me of Dzogchen, too. There are a few people out there trying to promote a sort of fusion of his work and Vajrayana (e.g. Sam Webster), but it doesn't seem proper to me. I've often thought about why, too, since Buddhism is all about love, acceptance and integrating. It takes the shape of whatever culture it's in. But, I don't know, it doesn't really make sense to me to use Egyptian gods for Buddhist practice. Or, I guess it might be more accurate to say that he uses Buddhist practice to worship Egyptian gods. It's clear he has a Buddhist understanding and he applies that to Thelema for some reason. Not entirely sure why.
Why? Because different beings have different defilements.
That is to say, he was under the sway of his defilements.
padma norbu wrote:Anyway, been feeling better about everything again since I just started doing practice and not worrying about progress or if I'm doing them right. . . when frustration arises, I don't say "screw it" to life or to the practice, but "screw it" to the frustration. . .No point in trying to run away from the pain and if you surrender to it and accept that this is how samsara is, it doesn't seem to hurt so much while simultaneously giving motivation to practice. I guess I'm getting better at it in very slow motion.
padma norbu wrote: It's clear he has a Buddhist understanding and he applies that to Thelema for some reason. Not entirely sure why.
padma norbu wrote:Crowley rejected Buddhism.
especially:padma norbu wrote:Anyway, been feeling better about everything again since I just started doing practice and not worrying about progress or if I'm doing them right. . . when frustration arises, I don't say "screw it" to life or to the practice, but "screw it" to the frustration. . .No point in trying to run away from the pain and if you surrender to it and accept that this is how samsara is, it doesn't seem to hurt so much while simultaneously giving motivation to practice. I guess I'm getting better at it in very slow motion.
Your progress doesn't seem that slow to me.
Namdrol wrote:padma norbu wrote:Crowley rejected Buddhism.
Not really. He considered it to be a "Yellow" school, outside of western teleologies and so therefore, something to draw from, but irrelevant to his overt rebellion against Christianity.
Nothing in Buddhism to rebel against.
padma norbu wrote:Interesting. My understanding is that he took what he could from it when he studied with Bennett and then decided it was ultimately wrong and Liber Al was ultimately right. He kept parts of it, but ultimately rejected the whole of what he understood of it; that is my impression. Here's a good analysis for anyone who might be interested: http://www.ashe-prem.org/five/jellyfish.shtml
padma norbu wrote:I don't know, man... I started dipping my toes in the water way back in the 90s! Seems pretty damn slow to me. But, maybe I just had to outgrow some things. 20s and early 30s seems like pretty difficult times for an American boy to really feel fed up with all samsara has to offer.
dakini_boi wrote:padma norbu wrote:I don't know, man... I started dipping my toes in the water way back in the 90s! Seems pretty damn slow to me. But, maybe I just had to outgrow some things. 20s and early 30s seems like pretty difficult times for an American boy to really feel fed up with all samsara has to offer.
Well I meant progress since you first started this topic. I think serious dharma practice - especially in Tantra - requires us to develop a "do or die" attitude where no matter what frustrations or obstacles come up, we're willing to do whatever it takes. Vajra hell is just when we give up trying ("give up" in a dualistic way, not in a dzogchen way ). Anyway, most of all I'm glad your mood seems to have gotten way lighter since beginning this topic. I hope it sticks, and whatever you learned, you remember.
Food_Eatah wrote:Maybe you should give punkism and rest, which will give your mind less distraction and free up some time for your buddhist practices?
padma norbu wrote:I just think it's kinda fun and funny that we are "arguing" about music here. I hope everyone is joking because I know I am.
These days I agree with miss fuddy duddy up there, the Food Eatah, about music. It could be another kind of cocaine... if I wasn't already pretty much over it. Music is mildly entertaining to me these days at best. I certainly won't pay to watch 4 guys act like doofuses on a stage.
padma norbu wrote:Yeah, well I figured it would end up like this. I was just trying to express my frustration very clearly. It was how I had been feeling for quite a while and needed to talk honestly about it to get good feedback and get through it. I was never really planning to "give up." Your input was very helpful, btw, so thank you very much. Lama Yeshe's Tantra book is indeed fantastic.
padma norbu wrote:I've come to realize that I'm quite lazy about Dzogchen practice. I don't really think there's anything I can do about it. In fact, I'm quite lazy with ANY practice I've ever discovered in relation to Buddhism. This has been going on for over a decade now and I have concluded that I will never be able to change.
Time to give up?
Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results. Completion of Tara practice is only a million mantras! No problem! Give me a break. Kabballist path-working was almost instantaneous in comparison, sorry to say.
padma norbu wrote:^
It is funny because that's finally what I've done. Maybe it's just me but it took quite a while to understand that from the point of view I currently have. It seems strange to put minutes or hours per day into practice and think it is not effort—because it obviously is—but, I don't know, seems more effortless now. I just had to perservere through a few bouts of frustration. Usually, I have thought my practice is no good if I'm feeling bad and so I stop and try to inspire myself or give myself a break or whatever. This last time, I just used practice as a focal point almost rather blankly without any expectation about it and sort of without effort because it seems like my effort was in resisting, so I just let a different part of me that was more about giving up take over; I gave up resisting and just practiced.
I don't think "give up the disease of effort" can really make sense unless you go through something like that.
dakini_boi wrote: YES, very well-put. That's the difference between "giving up" as a manifestation of laziness and "giving up" as a manifestation of renunciation. you renounce putting energy into the process of samsara. Then you're free to just practice. The fact of the matter is, if frustrations come up in practice - it's something you're going to have to deal with anyway, whether in practice or out.
It's hard to place where I am in my practice right now. I, too, have a sense of giving up but it's not because of laziness - it's more of a sort of nihilism, a sense of pointlessness. I have wondered if it might be clinical depression, but that doesn't seem right as I don't feel depressed but just bored with everything. There's nothing new under the sun and that whole bag.