Lazy people should just give up, right?

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padma norbu
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Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby padma norbu » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:49 pm

I've come to realize that I'm quite lazy about Dzogchen practice. I don't really think there's anything I can do about it. In fact, I'm quite lazy with ANY practice I've ever discovered in relation to Buddhism. This has been going on for over a decade now and I have concluded that I will never be able to change.
Time to give up?

Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results. Completion of Tara practice is only a million mantras! No problem! Give me a break. Kabballist path-working was almost instantaneous in comparison, sorry to say.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

Dharmaswede
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Dharmaswede » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:40 pm

Reification of laziness is a self-fulfilling prophecy, with all due respect. Wavering faith in results of practice aside, there are of course methods for working with inspiration, discipline, and motivation - from both Western psychology and Buddhist traditions. But I am sure you are aware of that...

Best Regards,

Jens
Last edited by Dharmaswede on Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:42 pm

If you accepted your laziness as the display of emptiness maybe you would become enlightened.

Acchantika
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Acchantika » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:26 pm

padma norbu wrote:Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results.


I had a similar problem. My lama told me, "the practices are the result."
...

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Sönam
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Sönam » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:37 pm

Same for me
In one hand I have zero motivation for practice ... in another hand I'm occupied with that with no interruption

:popcorn:
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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kirtu
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby kirtu » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Sönam wrote:Same for me
In one hand I have zero motivation for practice ... in another hand I'm occupied with that with no interruption

:popcorn



People are 100% 24/7 devoted to something .... ignorance as laziness is one of the main ones.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Virgo
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Virgo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:57 pm

padma norbu wrote:I've come to realize that I'm quite lazy about Dzogchen practice. I don't really think there's anything I can do about it. In fact, I'm quite lazy with ANY practice I've ever discovered in relation to Buddhism. This has been going on for over a decade now and I have concluded that I will never be able to change.
Time to give up?

Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results. Completion of Tara practice is only a million mantras! No problem! Give me a break. Kabballist path-working was almost instantaneous in comparison, sorry to say.

Yes, give up completely.

Kevin

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mint
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby mint » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:05 pm

Acchantika wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results.


I had a similar problem. My lama told me, "the practices are the result."


:good:

I would think that the point of assigning one million repetitions of anything would be to make the practice the result. It's utter absurdity is precisely the point.

Of course, I personally have a general problem with external practices. Sometimes it's difficult to see the forest for the trees.

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heart
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby heart » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:24 pm

padma norbu wrote:I've come to realize that I'm quite lazy about Dzogchen practice. I don't really think there's anything I can do about it. In fact, I'm quite lazy with ANY practice I've ever discovered in relation to Buddhism. This has been going on for over a decade now and I have concluded that I will never be able to change.
Time to give up?

Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results. Completion of Tara practice is only a million mantras! No problem! Give me a break. Kabballist path-working was almost instantaneous in comparison, sorry to say.


Getting over laziness with practice is quite a trip. It means to be very present and thoroughly enjoy the practice that you do. To let go of all your plans and schemes and just be right there. To do that you have to have confidence in your Guru and a vivid awareness of impermanence and drop everything else.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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swampflower
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby swampflower » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:30 pm

How could Tara be considered to be a chore even if one billion devotions are given?

You may even just call out her name to receive great benefit.
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

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Malcolm
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:47 pm

Just give up. There is no hope for you. You don't even have Buddha nature. :stirthepot:

N
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Sönam
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Sönam » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:56 pm

The conclusive meaning of Mind, Matrix and Secret Precept
lies in absence, openness, spontaneity and unity.
These four are treated each in four aspects:
disclosure, assimilation, "the bind" and resolution.

- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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padma norbu
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby padma norbu » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:01 pm

Virgo wrote:
padma norbu wrote:I've come to realize that I'm quite lazy about Dzogchen practice. I don't really think there's anything I can do about it. In fact, I'm quite lazy with ANY practice I've ever discovered in relation to Buddhism. This has been going on for over a decade now and I have concluded that I will never be able to change.
Time to give up?

Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results. Completion of Tara practice is only a million mantras! No problem! Give me a break. Kabballist path-working was almost instantaneous in comparison, sorry to say.

Yes, give up completely.

Kevin


:thanks: :twothumbsup: :applause: :cheers: :lol:
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

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padma norbu
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby padma norbu » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:04 pm

swampflower wrote:How could Tara be considered to be a chore even if one billion devotions are given?

You may even just call out her name to receive great benefit.

I have heard this before. But look at this thread I just made today. What can you deduce from this? I am pronouncing her name wrong?
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

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Paul
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Paul » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:20 pm

padma norbu wrote:
Virgo wrote:
padma norbu wrote:I've come to realize that I'm quite lazy about Dzogchen practice. I don't really think there's anything I can do about it. In fact, I'm quite lazy with ANY practice I've ever discovered in relation to Buddhism. This has been going on for over a decade now and I have concluded that I will never be able to change.
Time to give up?

Really just plain sick of practices that take forever to achieve results. Completion of Tara practice is only a million mantras! No problem! Give me a break. Kabballist path-working was almost instantaneous in comparison, sorry to say.

Yes, give up completely.

Kevin


:thanks: :twothumbsup: :applause: :cheers: :lol:



Yes - genuinely amazing advice :anjali:
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Fa Dao
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Fa Dao » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:27 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt laziness, (like everythng else for that matter) to be viewed as an ornament of ones Rigpa?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:05 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but isnt laziness, (like everythng else for that matter) to be viewed as an ornament of ones Rigpa?



yes, except when it is an ornament of one's marigpa.

N
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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sangyey
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby sangyey » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:22 pm

Atisha's Seven Point Mind Training:

'Discard all expectations of reward'

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Fa Dao
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby Fa Dao » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:48 pm

so when one is in rigpa its an ornament of rigpa and when in marigpa an ornament of that? interesting....
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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padma norbu
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Re: Lazy people should just give up, right?

Postby padma norbu » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:25 am

sangyey wrote:Atisha's Seven Point Mind Training:

'Discard all expectations of reward'


Doesn't help with being lazy. Wish I had a guru who could size me up and say, "okay, dumb guy, I see you have no capacity to do really just about anything, so... for you I just want you to sweep the floor here" and then blammo I achieve realization like in those legendary stories (which are seeming more and more far-fetched to me these days, btw).

No, more likely, these days, any teacher will tell me, "you can't do... or you don't WANT to do?"
and to which I'd say, "guess I don't want to"
and they'd say, "well then that's your problem"
and I would say, "Yeah, I know," but there wouldn't be any point because it would just become circular:
"so you must do the practice"
..."but I don't want to"
..."but you must"
..."but I won't, I'm telling you I can't"
..."well... if you won't take the medicine, how can you get better?"
..."I guess I won't."
..."well, that's up to you. It always has been and always will be. If you want to go around and around for a few million more aeons..."

Actually, the good thing about Namkhai Norbu is I suppose he would probably just say, "you try!" and "you do your best!" which is somehow more encouraging than "you must do this practice." At least I can rationalize that I'm trying. Am I doing my best? Seems to be the case...

On a side note, I have recently noticed that as a kid it was easy to adapt to change because people were always telling me what to do. As an adult I find that now I am very used to freedom and only doing what I want to do and consequently, I can't seem to make myself do anything anymore.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron


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