Knowing... what does it mean?

White Lotus
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Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:42 pm

when you are aware that you are emptiness and that you manifest as the natural state... what does this mean?

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Paul
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby Paul » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:57 pm

Experiential understanding of your own nature is rigpa.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby purple rose » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:59 pm

White Lotus wrote:when you are aware that you are emptiness and that you manifest as the natural state... what does this mean?

best wishes, Tom.



*duplicate topic has been deleted

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Sönam
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby Sönam » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:13 pm

knowing is just a designation for something already there that does not need to be retrieved, and spring out when asked.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

deepbluehum
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:11 am

Without a knower, how could there be knowledge?

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:17 pm

we are always looking for the big experience, but its naturally always with us in this normal every day feeling... rigpa.

i think that rigpa does not need to see anything special, not even non duality... seeing rigpa is automatically seeing ones own nature... this plain every day feeling weve had all our lives.

best wishes, Tom.

ps. can i deeply recommend a book... ''mahamudra and ati yoga''. (g. baroetto). it is a fantastic book and very simple to read. if you are looking for termas this is it.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:23 pm

nothing to retrieve, all right in front of me. everything i need spontaneously present in my natural condition.

the natural world, knowledge, knower, known.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Paul
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby Paul » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:26 pm

White Lotus wrote:we are always looking for the big experience, but its naturally always with us in this normal every day feeling... rigpa.

i think that rigpa does not need to see anything special, not even non duality... seeing rigpa is automatically seeing ones own nature... this plain every day feeling weve had all our lives.


RE your sig -That sounds like confusing objectless shamatha with rigpa. All teachings I've come across state that rigpa sees through non-duality.

Have you had teachings on Dzogchen from a proper teacher? I'd take your meditation experience to them and see what they think.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:44 pm

no need to argue, just experience your every day state.

i know that non duality is popular, but experienceing rigpa in the non dual state is no different from experienceing it in a dual state. i have experimented with these different states. non dual perception merely comes when one has dissolved the individual ego. this is not necessary.

honour to the root master, respects to the ascended teachers.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Paul
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby Paul » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:47 pm

White Lotus wrote:i know that non duality is popular, but experienceing rigpa in the non dual state is no different from experienceing it in a dual state. i have experimented with these different states. non dual perception merely comes when one has dissolved the individual ego. this is not necessary.


With respect, that sounds very strange. I really think you should explain to your teacher your meditation experiences and see what s/he says.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:14 pm

the every day state, our natural selves, when focused on is no different from the experiece of kensho, seeing ones own nature. its just this every day feeling. with living in your natural state i have no doubt that some will dissolve ego, however i think that should not be the goal. the goal should be to live naturally in
your own state. perfectly complete in itself.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Sönam
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby Sönam » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:33 pm

I'm stupid, don't understand, what is "your own state" ? ... stupidity ?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:08 pm

its only a wise person who asks questions, certainly not stupid.

your own state is this state you have had from birth and will have until death, its completely normal awareness. the ''kunje gyalpo''. creator of all.

Sonam, may i ask you a question? why does the ego complicate simple things so much?

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Sönam
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby Sönam » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:10 pm

White Lotus wrote:its only a wise person who asks questions, certainly not stupid.

your own state is this state you have had from birth and will have until death, its completely normal awareness. the ''kunje gyalpo''. creator of all.

Sonam, may i ask you a question? why does the ego complicate simple things so much?

best wishes, Tom.


Because it confuses what it is with an image of what it is ...

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:23 pm

a false self image, an exaggeration, over importance, a complication.
so false image complicates things.
good answer Sonam, thank you.

best wishes, Tom.

ps. it will be very hard to 'rest' in rigpa with ego, but anyone can see rigpa. unless they are looking for something complicated. then they are not looking for rigpa.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby muni » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:24 pm

White Lotus wrote:
ps. it will be very hard to 'rest' in rigpa with ego.


"rigpa"... with ego. :tongue: He snores.
Remember that a thought is only the fleeting conjunction of myriad factors and circumstances. It does not exist by itself. When a thought arises, recognize its empty nature. It will immediately loose its power to elicit the next thought. And the chain of delusion will be broken. ~~Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

White Lotus
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:41 pm

i love you muni!

snorings good, so is ego!

Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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booker
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby booker » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:21 pm

White Lotus wrote:no need to argue, just experience your every day state.

i know that non duality is popular, but experienceing rigpa in the non dual state is no different from experienceing it in a dual state. i have experimented with these different states. non dual perception merely comes when one has dissolved the individual ego. this is not necessary.

honour to the root master, respects to the ascended teachers.

Well, not willing to argue here too, but whenever there are Dzogchen teachings present one thing is vividly very clear, and that is Rigpa is never ever dualistic state. Never. :) And that the dualisic state is of marigpa and never of rigpa. So that in rigpa duality does not happen, because that's how it is :) Ergo dual state is of marigpa.

honour to the humbleness that sees beyond one's multilayered misconceptions ;)
"Be Buddhist or be Buddha"

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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby White Lotus » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:51 pm

dear Booker, theres nothing to worry about. just as you are... rigpa. just as things are... rigpa. nothing to attain, nor anything that needs to be attained. youve always had it. you always will. it cant be lost... rigpa.
just your own natural state. the way youve always been.

spontaneously complete. just relax.

youve already got it!

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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booker
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Re: Knowing... what does it mean?

Postby booker » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:11 pm

Tim, I know every being has Natural State which can't be lost/attained, but I can't tell I have rigpa, why? Simple, because I'm not in the state of rigpa. I'm in a state of marigpa.

So, just as I am now... marigpa. :)

Best to you too.
"Be Buddhist or be Buddha"


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