Knowing... what does it mean?

[White Lotus]

when you are aware that you are emptiness and that you manifest as the natural state... what does this mean?

best wishes, Tom.

[Paul]

Experiential understanding of your own nature is rigpa.

[Tara]

when you are aware that you are emptiness and that you manifest as the natural state... what does this mean?

best wishes, Tom.

*duplicate topic has been deleted

[Sönam]

knowing is just a designation for something already there that does not need to be retrieved, and spring out when asked.

Sönam

[deepbluehum]

Without a knower, how could there be knowledge?

[White Lotus]

we are always looking for the big experience, but its naturally always with us in this normal every day feeling... rigpa.

i think that rigpa does not need to see anything special, not even non duality... seeing rigpa is automatically seeing ones own nature... this plain every day feeling weve had all our lives.

best wishes, Tom.

ps. can i deeply recommend a book... ''mahamudra and ati yoga''. (g. baroetto). it is a fantastic book and very simple to read. if you are looking for termas this is it.

[White Lotus]

nothing to retrieve, all right in front of me. everything i need spontaneously present in my natural condition.

the natural world, knowledge, knower, known.

best wishes, Tom.

[Paul]

we are always looking for the big experience, but its naturally always with us in this normal every day feeling... rigpa.

i think that rigpa does not need to see anything special, not even non duality... seeing rigpa is automatically seeing ones own nature... this plain every day feeling weve had all our lives.

RE your sig -That sounds like confusing objectless shamatha with rigpa. All teachings I've come across state that rigpa sees through non-duality.

Have you had teachings on Dzogchen from a proper teacher? I'd take your meditation experience to them and see what they think.

[White Lotus]

no need to argue, just experience your every day state.

i know that non duality is popular, but experienceing rigpa in the non dual state is no different from experienceing it in a dual state. i have experimented with these different states. non dual perception merely comes when one has dissolved the individual ego. this is not necessary.

honour to the root master, respects to the ascended teachers.

best wishes, Tom.

[Paul]

i know that non duality is popular, but experienceing rigpa in the non dual state is no different from experienceing it in a dual state. i have experimented with these different states. non dual perception merely comes when one has dissolved the individual ego. this is not necessary.

With respect, that sounds very strange. I really think you should explain to your teacher your meditation experiences and see what s/he says.

[White Lotus]

the every day state, our natural selves, when focused on is no different from the experiece of kensho, seeing ones own nature. its just this every day feeling. with living in your natural state i have no doubt that some will dissolve ego, however i think that should not be the goal. the goal should be to live naturally in
your own state. perfectly complete in itself.

best wishes, Tom.

[Sönam]

I'm stupid, don't understand, what is "your own state" ? ... stupidity ?

Sönam

[White Lotus]

its only a wise person who asks questions, certainly not stupid.

your own state is this state you have had from birth and will have until death, its completely normal awareness. the ''kunje gyalpo''. creator of all.

Sonam, may i ask you a question? why does the ego complicate simple things so much?

best wishes, Tom.

[Sönam]

its only a wise person who asks questions, certainly not stupid.

your own state is this state you have had from birth and will have until death, its completely normal awareness. the ''kunje gyalpo''. creator of all.

Sonam, may i ask you a question? why does the ego complicate simple things so much?

best wishes, Tom.

Because it confuses what it is with an image of what it is ...

Sönam

[White Lotus]

a false self image, an exaggeration, over importance, a complication.
so false image complicates things.
good answer Sonam, thank you.

best wishes, Tom.

ps. it will be very hard to 'rest' in rigpa with ego, but anyone can see rigpa. unless they are looking for something complicated. then they are not looking for rigpa.

[muni]

ps. it will be very hard to 'rest' in rigpa with ego.

"rigpa"... with ego. He snores.

[White Lotus]

i love you muni!

snorings good, so is ego!

Tom.

[booker]

no need to argue, just experience your every day state.

i know that non duality is popular, but experienceing rigpa in the non dual state is no different from experienceing it in a dual state. i have experimented with these different states. non dual perception merely comes when one has dissolved the individual ego. this is not necessary.

honour to the root master, respects to the ascended teachers.

Well, not willing to argue here too, but whenever there are Dzogchen teachings present one thing is vividly very clear, and that is Rigpa is never ever dualistic state. Never. And that the dualisic state is of marigpa and never of rigpa. So that in rigpa duality does not happen, because that's how it is Ergo dual state is of marigpa.

honour to the humbleness that sees beyond one's multilayered misconceptions

[White Lotus]

dear Booker, theres nothing to worry about. just as you are... rigpa. just as things are... rigpa. nothing to attain, nor anything that needs to be attained. youve always had it. you always will. it cant be lost... rigpa.
just your own natural state. the way youve always been.

spontaneously complete. just relax.

youve already got it!

best wishes, Tom.

[booker]

Tim, I know every being has Natural State which can't be lost/attained, but I can't tell I have rigpa, why? Simple, because I'm not in the state of rigpa. I'm in a state of marigpa.

So, just as I am now... marigpa.

Best to you too.