Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:28 pm

heart wrote:
Pero wrote:
heart wrote:DD? Can't find this text in the Chokling Tersar!? Where did Rinpoche find it?

Dzogchen Desum.


Look at ratnas answer above.

Ah I should have deleted the rest of your quote. I just wanted to answer what I meant with DD. :smile:
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:01 pm

Pero wrote:Ah I should have deleted the rest of your quote. I just wanted to answer what I meant with DD. :smile:


Ah! :smile:

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:55 pm

So, apparently there are a few different "styles" of Longde? What is it then in its approach and methods that makes Longde different from Semde or Upadesha?
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby sunjohn » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:40 am

I received teachings and transmission of the Longde Four Da from Norbu Rinpoche. There is a lot in the longde series. However, the way I practice the four DA is very simple -- as a guideline for sitting meditation. Approached that way, they seem to be quite accessible. What they bring to my practice that differs from other approaches, including semde and upadesha, is an emphasis on feeling a tangible sensation of blissful wisdom filling the interior space of the body as I meditate. Ultimately this experience of interior space merges with exterior space and there can be a realization of non-dual oneness of emptiness and bliss.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:05 am

Sunjohn,
thank you for your reply. Sounds exactly like what I have been looking for. I have the book ordered but unfortunately will not be able to do the practices until I get the actual transmission, right? And if so, does anyone have any idea of when Rinpoche will be teachings the Four Da again?
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:18 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Sunjohn,
thank you for your reply. Sounds exactly like what I have been looking for. I have the book ordered but unfortunately will not be able to do the practices until I get the actual transmission, right? And if so, does anyone have any idea of when Rinpoche will be teachings the Four Da again?

No idea, impossible to predict. You could look at the retreats that last only a couple days. Bigger chance that he'll teach the essence of Dzogchen Desum then. Though considering he has taught that three times already in the last year, perhaps he will not teach it again soon. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine. But I bet he'll teach Longsal Longde again within about two years hehe. Perhaps during the 5 Tenerife retreats next year already.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby sunjohn » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:15 am

Fa Dao,

Of course if/ when you can receive transmission, you should do so. It will empower and launch your longde practice. However, as I was trying to suggest, there is nothing to prevent, and I believe, no harm in practicing basic sitting meditation, while using the Four Da to help guide your practice. The Da are simpy signs / guideposts for practice. If you would like, I could tell you a little how I do this -- I am a non-sectarian meditation instructor. My email is sunyata@valinet.com. I say this not to deny the importance of transmission, but simply to share how I practice and teach meditation. The longde tradition in its fullness is quite involved with many elements, much of which I do not currently practice, and am not qualified to teach. However, I do use and teach the four da as part of my meditation instruction. So if you are interested, let me know.

peace,
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:59 am

sunjohn wrote:Fa Dao,

Of course if/ when you can receive transmission, you should do so. It will empower and launch your longde practice. However, as I was trying to suggest, there is nothing to prevent, and I believe, no harm in practicing basic sitting meditation, while using the Four Da to help guide your practice. The Da are simpy signs / guideposts for practice. If you would like, I could tell you a little how I do this -- I am a non-sectarian meditation instructor. My email is sunyata@valinet.com. I say this not to deny the importance of transmission, but simply to share how I practice and teach meditation. The longde tradition in its fullness is quite involved with many elements, much of which I do not currently practice, and am not qualified to teach. However, I do use and teach the four da as part of my meditation instruction. So if you are interested, let me know.

peace,
sunjohn

:roll:
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:51 am

sunjohn wrote:Fa Dao,

Of course if/ when you can receive transmission, you should do so. It will empower and launch your longde practice. However, as I was trying to suggest, there is nothing to prevent, and I believe, no harm in practicing basic sitting meditation, while using the Four Da to help guide your practice. The Da are simpy signs / guideposts for practice. If you would like, I could tell you a little how I do this -- I am a non-sectarian meditation instructor. My email is sunyata@valinet.com. I say this not to deny the importance of transmission, but simply to share how I practice and teach meditation. The longde tradition in its fullness is quite involved with many elements, much of which I do not currently practice, and am not qualified to teach. However, I do use and teach the four da as part of my meditation instruction. So if you are interested, let me know.

peace,
sunjohn


I'm sure you're entirely well-intended, but this is the exact kind of thing that gives great masters no other choice but to stop teaching this stuff openly to westerners. It's happened before. Please don't cause Norbu Rinpoche to also have to come to such a conclusion.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby sunjohn » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:18 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
I'm sure you're entirely well-intended, but this is the exact kind of thing that gives great masters no other choice but to stop teaching this stuff openly to westerners. It's happened before. Please don't cause Norbu Rinpoche to also have to come to such a conclusion.


Don’t worry, I won’t cause any problems. My focus is on my own practice, and on teaching meditation, Buddhism, and world religions in my local community. I was just trying to offer what I wish had been available to me 20 years ago. I was introduced to Dzogchen in the late 80s and the longde teachings in the early 90s, and I immediately felt that the four Da were key to my practice. What I really wanted was to focus on sitting meditation, with the four Da as a guide, However, the Dzogchen community doesn’t emphasize doing sitting meditation together; Rinpoche was around very rarely, and few people in the community (and no other Dzogchen teachers that I met) seemed to focus on longde. I didn’t really find anyone to connect with around it, and so I was on my own, and I had lots of questions. It took many many years, and finding a Zen teacher and community, as well as an unorthodox Thai Vipassana teacher, to really get the support I needed for my sitting practice, even though working with the four Da has still been on my own. After many years, my practice and clarity is settling in. I have become authorized as a meditation teacher and preceptor in a Zen lineage. However, I consider myself primarily a non-sectarian guy, and the four Da have always been central to my practice. When I saw Fa Dao’s questions, I recognized the kind of interest and questions that I had those many years ago. It’s so helpful to have someone to talk to, and ask questions of, around the subtleties of practice, and I never had that with the four Da. So that is where I was coming from in my comments, wanting to offer that kind of support. In my opinion the four Da are a really valuable teaching, and it’s too bad they are not more available. Meanwhile Vipassana and Zen and Shambala folks are out there teaching meditation in prisons, hospitals, schools, and local communities. Myself, I teach meditation to both teens and adults in my community, and counsel folks around their practice. I make no claims or explicitly teach anything that I have not been authorized to. But the four Da are with me always, informing my understanding. It’s too bad I can’t really give credit where credit is due.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Malcolm » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:26 pm

sunjohn wrote: and few people in the community (and no other Dzogchen teachers that I met) seemed to focus on longde.


You should communicate with Jim Valby.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:00 am

Pero wrote:
Fa Dao wrote: I have the book ordered but unfortunately will not be able to do the practices until I get the actual transmission, right? And if so, does anyone have any idea of when Rinpoche will be teachings the Four Da again?

No idea, impossible to predict. You could look at the retreats that last only a couple days. Bigger chance that he'll teach the essence of Dzogchen Desum then. Though considering he has taught that three times already in the last year, perhaps he will not teach it again soon. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine. But I bet he'll teach Longsal Longde again within about two years hehe. Perhaps during the 5 Tenerife retreats next year already.

Oh well I didn't expect it so soon but I did say within two years, so I wasn't wrong haha. Perhaps you know already but unless something changes, Rinpoche will be giving Longde teachings in Taiwan, 24-28th of May.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:27 am

Pero, any idea if it will be Longsal Longde or the Four Da's of Vairocana? Also will this be on webcast, either closed or open?
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:13 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Pero, any idea if it will be Longsal Longde or the Four Da's of Vairocana?

I think it will be Longsal Longde. Rinpoche may still give the lung for the four Da of Vairochana though, that's what he did the last time. In any case Longsal Longde uses the 4 Da anyway.

Also will this be on webcast, either closed or open?

The last time it was closed webcast, no idea for this one or if there even will be a webcast. I think there will be because almost every retreat now there is a webcast but I guess the only one who'd know for sure is Rinpoche haha.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:50 pm

Pero,
on the websites it says there will be a webcast from Taiwan. I dont know how it works as I have not been able to go to a live retreat yet but does Rinpoche teach at other times other than the times he is broadcasting on the webcast during a retreat? I have been waiting for this for quite some time. It sucks being poor sometimes. If I was to hit the lottery I would be a Norbuhead for a couple of years and follow him from retreat to retreat. Seriously.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:50 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Pero,
on the websites it says there will be a webcast from Taiwan.

Oh great.

I dont know how it works as I have not been able to go to a live retreat yet but does Rinpoche teach at other times other than the times he is broadcasting on the webcast during a retreat?

No, so don't worry, you're not going to miss anything with "only" webcast. The exception of course is when he is giving a formal initation which can't be done over webcast and then there might be some practices related with it which only the people who received the initation can do, as was the case with Black Garuda. But for Longde he gives a donwang so there is nothing to worry about. Oh except I guess problems with webcast.

I have been waiting for this for quite some time. It sucks being poor sometimes. If I was to hit the lottery I would be a Norbuhead for a couple of years and follow him from retreat to retreat. Seriously.

Well in this case being rich would not have helped you one bit. What would you have done, try to bribe Rinpoche into teaching Longde or something? Haha. :D
Actually I was very interested in Longde too, and 3 years passed before I received it.
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:19 pm

No, not bribe him...just go to every retreat for a few years until he did teach it...just like following the Dead :D
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:18 pm

Fa Dao wrote:No, not bribe him...just go to every retreat for a few years until he did teach it...just like following the Dead :D

Hehe, uhm, what does "following the Dead" mean?
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Josef » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:21 pm

Pero wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:No, not bribe him...just go to every retreat for a few years until he did teach it...just like following the Dead :D

Hehe, uhm, what does "following the Dead" mean?

The Grateful Dead man!
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:14 am

Pero, I forget you are not an american. Like Nangwa said, the Grateful Dead. They were a very popular band many years ago and people would follow them from concert to concert for years. They were affectionately known as "Dead heads".
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