Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

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Fa Dao
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Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:09 am

Do these require a special transmission or empowerment?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:21 am

Fa Dao wrote:Do these require a special transmission or empowerment?


There are empowerment's for the Vajra Bridge and for Heruka Ngon Zog Gyalpo and also of course special instructions. But I guess you are asking for the DC and if I remember correctly you have to participate in a Longde retreat to do the practices.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

Pero
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:29 am

Rinpoche gives a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for Longde. But there is a very simple way of practicing the 4 bda that doesn't require a specific empowerment, from Dzogchen Desum by Chogyur Lingpa which Rinpoche taught three times in the past year or so, most recently a week ago.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:43 am

Pero wrote:Rinpoche gives a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for Longde. But there is a very simple way of practicing the 4 bda that doesn't require a specific empowerment, from Dzogchen Desum by Chogyur Lingpa which Rinpoche taught three times in the past year or so, most recently a week ago.


There are many empowerments in the Dzogchen Desum. Why do you think they are not required?

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

Pero
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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:05 pm

heart wrote:
Pero wrote:Rinpoche gives a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for Longde. But there is a very simple way of practicing the 4 bda that doesn't require a specific empowerment, from Dzogchen Desum by Chogyur Lingpa which Rinpoche taught three times in the past year or so, most recently a week ago.


There are many empowerments in the Dzogchen Desum. Why do you think they are not required?

I meant there was no specific empowerment (like Ngodzog Gyalpo) for the Longde teaching Rinpoche gave from Dzogchen Desum.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:06 pm

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:
Pero wrote:Rinpoche gives a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for Longde. But there is a very simple way of practicing the 4 bda that doesn't require a specific empowerment, from Dzogchen Desum by Chogyur Lingpa which Rinpoche taught three times in the past year or so, most recently a week ago.


There are many empowerments in the Dzogchen Desum. Why do you think they are not required?

I meant there was no specific empowerment (like Ngodzog Gyalpo) for the Longde teaching Rinpoche gave from Dzogchen Desum.


I would say that there is. At least that is what I been told.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

Pero
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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:56 pm

heart wrote:
Pero wrote:
heart wrote:There are many empowerments in the Dzogchen Desum. Why do you think they are not required?

I meant there was no specific empowerment (like Ngodzog Gyalpo) for the Longde teaching Rinpoche gave from Dzogchen Desum.


I would say that there is. At least that is what I been told.

I suppose so, he did mention there were many initiations in it. But if I don't remember wrong, he also said that it is sufficient to do direct introduction and guru yoga because it's the essence of it all. The teaching Rinpoche gave was actually not the entire Dzogchen Desum itself, but the essence of it, called something like "Revealed treasure of Chogyur Lingpa, heart essence/summary of the secret instructions on the three series of Dzogchen, dispelling the darkness of the mind". In this teaching that Rinpoche gave it was not necessary to receive a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for the practice.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:04 pm

Thanks everybody. Apparently there is more than one way to do Longde. I was specifically interested in the restricted book by ChNNR "Longde Teachings, Based on the Original Texts by Vairocana" Some restricted books require general Direct Introduction transmission while others more specific transmission or empowerment.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Pero
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:09 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Thanks everybody. Apparently there is more than one way to do Longde. I was specifically interested in the restricted book by ChNNR "Longde Teachings, Based on the Original Texts by Vairocana" Some restricted books require general Direct Introduction transmission while others more specific transmission or empowerment.

You can read the book if you want, just can't do the practices. And yeah 4 bda aren't the only way to do Longde, Mutsuk mentioned here that there are many more methods. And also in the old transcriptions you can see some mention of another method (Mutsuk mentioned this one specifically).
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:00 pm

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:I would say that there is. At least that is what I been told.

I suppose so, he did mention there were many initiations in it. But if I don't remember wrong, he also said that it is sufficient to do direct introduction and guru yoga because it's the essence of it all. The teaching Rinpoche gave was actually not the entire Dzogchen Desum itself, but the essence of it, called something like "Revealed treasure of Chogyur Lingpa, heart essence/summary of the secret instructions on the three series of Dzogchen, dispelling the darkness of the mind". In this teaching that Rinpoche gave it was not necessary to receive a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for the practice.


What is the Tibetan name of the text (in wylie)?

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:06 pm

Sorry Magnus, it doesnt say. Just says that those teachings are taken from the original texts by Vairocana and Dzin Dharmabodhi. I just know that from what little I have been able to find on the Longde Four Da practices that I feel a strong connection to them. I always go with my gut on these things.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:14 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Sorry Magnus, it doesnt say. Just says that those teachings are taken from the original texts by Vairocana and Dzin Dharmabodhi. I just know that from what little I have been able to find on the Longde Four Da practices that I feel a strong connection to them. I always go with my gut on these things.


I have read ChNN texts, I wasn't asking about them Fa Dao. I was asking about the text Pero mentioned, from the Dzogchen Desum by Chokgyur Lingpa.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:17 pm

oops...sorry about that...but I wouldnt mind knowing that either
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Pero
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:09 pm

heart wrote:
Pero wrote:
heart wrote:I would say that there is. At least that is what I been told.

I suppose so, he did mention there were many initiations in it. But if I don't remember wrong, he also said that it is sufficient to do direct introduction and guru yoga because it's the essence of it all. The teaching Rinpoche gave was actually not the entire Dzogchen Desum itself, but the essence of it, called something like "Revealed treasure of Chogyur Lingpa, heart essence/summary of the secret instructions on the three series of Dzogchen, dispelling the darkness of the mind". In this teaching that Rinpoche gave it was not necessary to receive a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for the practice.


What is the Tibetan name of the text (in wylie)?

/magnus


mchog gling gter byon rdzogs chen sde gsum gyi man ngag snying dril blo yi mun sel

But I don't think you're going to find this in the DD if that's why you're interested.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 am

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:
Pero wrote:I suppose so, he did mention there were many initiations in it. But if I don't remember wrong, he also said that it is sufficient to do direct introduction and guru yoga because it's the essence of it all. The teaching Rinpoche gave was actually not the entire Dzogchen Desum itself, but the essence of it, called something like "Revealed treasure of Chogyur Lingpa, heart essence/summary of the secret instructions on the three series of Dzogchen, dispelling the darkness of the mind". In this teaching that Rinpoche gave it was not necessary to receive a Ngodzog Gyalpo empowerment for the practice.


What is the Tibetan name of the text (in wylie)?

/magnus

mchog gling gter byon rdzogs chen sde gsum gyi man ngag snying dril blo yi mun sel

But I don't think you're going to find this in the DD if that's why you're interested.


DD? Can't find this text in the Chokling Tersar!? Where did Rinpoche find it?

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby ratna » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:04 am

It's Rinpoche's own text, a condensation of the essence of the Three Series. It is mainly based on the notes of Chokgyur Lingpa's student, Karma Ratna that are found in vol 23 ('A, text no. 21) in the Chokling Tersar.

R

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:39 pm

ratna wrote:It's Rinpoche's own text, a condensation of the essence of the Three Series. It is mainly based on the notes of Chokgyur Lingpa's student, Karma Ratna that are found in vol 23 ('A, text no. 21) in the Chokling Tersar.

R


Thanks Ratna, that makes perfect sense. Have you seen a translation of Karmey Khenpos text?

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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ratna
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby ratna » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:04 pm

I'm not aware of any, unfortunately.

R

heart wrote:
Thanks Ratna, that makes perfect sense. Have you seen a translation of Karmey Khenpos text?

/magnus

Pero
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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby Pero » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:56 pm

heart wrote:DD? Can't find this text in the Chokling Tersar!? Where did Rinpoche find it?

Dzogchen Desum.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Longde Four Da practices of Vairocana

Postby heart » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:19 pm

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:DD? Can't find this text in the Chokling Tersar!? Where did Rinpoche find it?

Dzogchen Desum.


Look at ratnas answer above.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa


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