How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby dakini_boi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:22 am

?
dakini_boi
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:02 am

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby muni » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:50 am

A tecnical or analytical description of dzogchen nondual contemplation/"nondual rigpa"? Lots and lots of texts on internet and everywhere about. I am going to read them all and am sure at the end i will land as deluded as can be. Therefore when one can explain the HOW then I'll keep it in my fist, never open it anymore and never will need a Dzogchen master anymore.

guideline:
'Although apparent phenomena manifest as diversity ---
yet this diversity is non-dual.
And of all the multiplicity
of individual things that exist,
none can be confined in a limited concept.
Staying free from the trap of any attempt
to say 'it's like this', or 'like that',
it becomes clear that all manifested forms are
aspects of the infinite formless,
and, indivisible from it,
are self-perfected.
Seeing that everything is self-perfected
from the very beginning,
the disease of striving for any achievement
is surrendered,
and just remaining in the natural state
as it is,
the presence of non-dual contemplation
continuously spontaneously arises." Namkhay Norbu Rinpoche

Edit/ http://books.google.be/books?id=b9DpCIG ... pa&f=false
Last edited by muni on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
muni
 
Posts: 2736
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby kalden yungdrung » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:20 am

dakini_boi wrote:?



Tashi delek,

A step into the right direction would be the non-dual awareness which is based on the non-egocentric mind.
This awareness is egoless when there is no watcher involved in the visions. It doesn't act in the way of accepting and rejecting in case of emotions and the appearing thoughts.

Then the thoughts and emotions can dissolve into their nature if there is no watcher or ego with its graspings etc..
The ego mind does vitalize or freeze the thoughts and emotions, so they are keeping alive and become static or our daily dualistic movie.

So to be in Rigpa is recognizing the Non-dual State or that state which is without an ego functioning of subject and object.
Then the visions etc. can dissolve into their Nature and when this process is happening then one can be dwelling in the State of Rigpa or to be in th Natural State and this is Rigpa.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with the visions / awareness and thoughts but more with the realization that the whole process is without a dualistic mind or with the mind of ego.

Furtheron if there is no grasping to the visions, sounds and lights and this all can be dissloved into their Nature ( Tong Cha - Emptiness), then when one is doing it all with the mind of non-ego and this mind does not behave with object and subject, grasping, etc., this mind is indeed Rigpa if all the above mentioned visions, sounds and rays can be dissolved into their Nature.
Further a post meditation would be the difference with this Rigpa if one is standing up from the Gom chen / meditation cushion and one is alert about the dualistic grasping of that habitual ego mind............

So one of my practice is to stand up from the cushion and stand for a while , when i am in the Natural State.
Then i walk for a while, in the Natural State etc.
The point is to prolongue this Natural Sate more and more so that one can be for 24 hours a day in this State.



Best wishes

Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby booker » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:21 am

dakini_boi wrote:?

I would go to Master to verify.
"Be Buddhist or be Buddha"
User avatar
booker
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:08 pm
Location: UK

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Paul » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:12 am

booker wrote:
dakini_boi wrote:?

I would go to Master to verify.


Definitely. Senior students can give good guidance, but a proper dzogchen teacher is the best.
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby muni » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:02 am

Sharing right clouds- heads in the clouds. Wise say that in the vast skylike nature brightful bathing light, clouds are free. So is a good cloud/correct description as well.

Relax, I saw written on other tread. Emaho!

Hello Josephine, how is your rigpa?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAYceC0p ... re=related

The Dzogchen master. :buddha1:
muni
 
Posts: 2736
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Sönam » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:00 pm

dakini_boi wrote:?


simply ask Rig-Pa if he did recognize you ...

:yinyang:
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Sönam
 
Posts: 1869
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby booker » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:46 pm

LOL
"Be Buddhist or be Buddha"
User avatar
booker
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:08 pm
Location: UK

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:29 pm

Your teacher will tell you.

More importantly as Sonam indicated it will tell you itself.

Rigpa's just the natural state right here right now you don't need to do anything to recognize it or verify it.

If you try to ascertain whether or not you've got it or not that isn't it.

"Recognition" is just another empty thing.
User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby White Lotus » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:53 pm

realization of that which is normal and natural is a powerful realization. it doesnt require anything. just be yourself.

the normal is the beautiful.

seeing with your own eyes... non duality, emptiness, energy... all only realizations of the special. not the supreme realization... that which is normal.

when aware aware. when asleep asleep. just naturally so. normal life is the way.

so... just relax.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
White Lotus
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:21 pm

There's a lot of possible flowery talk that people give, but to really know if *you* have seen rigpa, usually your master and you will do a method or he will give you one to take home and if you do it, then you will have to see it. The recognition itself is beyond explanations.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:51 pm

As the others have said. Certainly something to discuss with your teacher. It has wisdom within it so you will know. Just like those who achieve rainbow body know prior that they will achieve rainbow body. Here is a list of some of the things that might be 'experienced'.
1. You have no problems.
2. You delight in the mucky stuff - it's delightful because you are not caught up in it. Angry wife, piss poor job - delightful.
3. You don't have meditation sessions and breaks.
4. You don't feel 100% human.
5. You practice when you sleep.
6. You could sit for hours and you wouldn't think of it as trying. Always fresh.
7. You have a lot of natural clarity.
8. You don't feel pain in a dualistic way.
9. You realize that nothing happens.
10. You are naturally sympathetic to others.
11. You are keen to help others in an uncontrived way.
12. You don't take any shit.
13. You are indifferent at times.
14. You don't care about going to party.
15. You don't need anything.
16. You don't get scared by ANYTHING.
17. Friends and enemies are equal.
and so on and so on..........
Andrew108
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Clarence » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 pm

Recognizing and Realizing are not the same.
Clarence
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Acchantika » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:38 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Rigpa's just the natural state right here right now you don't need to do anything to recognize it or verify it.

If you try to ascertain whether or not you've got it or not that isn't it.

"Recognition" is just another empty thing.


Yet since a distinction is made between rigpa and "here-and-now" awareness, ascertaining the above must be vital.

Abiding in the awareness of the present moment, that is uncontrived and free of duality, is not rigpa, as I understand it. As Milarepa says:

    Don't conceive of yourself as having attained the sublime state
    when your meditation is just based on nonconceptual calm abiding
    [shamtha].
...
Acchantika
 
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:04 am

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Acchantika wrote:
Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Rigpa's just the natural state right here right now you don't need to do anything to recognize it or verify it.

If you try to ascertain whether or not you've got it or not that isn't it.

"Recognition" is just another empty thing.


Yet since a distinction is made between rigpa and "here-and-now" awareness, ascertaining the above must be vital.

Abiding in the awareness of the present moment, that is uncontrived and free of duality, is not rigpa, as I understand it. As Milarepa says:

    Don't conceive of yourself as having attained the sublime state
    when your meditation is just based on nonconceptual calm abiding
    [shamtha].


Good point but I didn't mean it was the practice of abiding in present moment I just meant it was in some sense always already here, therefore there is nothing to try to recognize. We can't try to abide in something we're always already abiding in.
User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:08 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Acchantika wrote:
Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Rigpa's just the natural state right here right now you don't need to do anything to recognize it or verify it.

If you try to ascertain whether or not you've got it or not that isn't it.

"Recognition" is just another empty thing.


Yet since a distinction is made between rigpa and "here-and-now" awareness, ascertaining the above must be vital.

Abiding in the awareness of the present moment, that is uncontrived and free of duality, is not rigpa, as I understand it. As Milarepa says:

    Don't conceive of yourself as having attained the sublime state
    when your meditation is just based on nonconceptual calm abiding
    [shamtha].


Good point but I didn't mean it was the practice of abiding in present moment I just meant it was in some sense always already here, therefore there is nothing to try to recognize. We can't try to abide in something we're always already abiding in.


I can't agree. The recognition is not always already there and must be recognized utilizing a method that must be taught.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:20 pm

deepbluehum wrote:I can't agree. The recognition is not always already there and must be recognized utilizing a method that must be taught.


IMHO the path in dzogchen is not "try to recognize", that is a path of renunciation or path of transformation path - the path in dzogchen is remaining without doubt, having received direct introduction.
User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:26 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:I can't agree. The recognition is not always already there and must be recognized utilizing a method that must be taught.


IMHO the path in dzogchen is not "try to recognize", that is a path of renunciation or path of transformation path - the path in dzogchen is remaining without doubt, having received direct introduction.



Direct introduction is not a great translation, in actuality. The phrase is "ngo rang thog du sprad" which means more like "a direct self-encounter with [one's] state [lit. face]".
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10217
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:52 pm

Acchantika wrote:Abiding in the awareness of the present moment, that is uncontrived and free of duality, is not rigpa, as I understand it. As Milarepa says:

Don't conceive of yourself as having attained the sublime state
when your meditation is just based on nonconceptual calm abiding [shamtha].


These two are different. Non-conceptual calm abiding (shamata) is different from 'uncontrived and free of duality.' It's the free of duality that is the difference.
Andrew108
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: How do you know if you've recognized rigpa?

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:02 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:I can't agree. The recognition is not always already there and must be recognized utilizing a method that must be taught.


IMHO the path in dzogchen is not "try to recognize", that is a path of renunciation or path of transformation path - the path in dzogchen is remaining without doubt, having received direct introduction.


You can play any semantics game you like, but the fact remains there's no recognition of any kind without first receiving the instructions and blessing of the lineage.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Next

Return to Dzogchen

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], JohnJ and 13 guests

>