Dzogchen and other traditions

[White Lotus]

I am Braham, Shiva and Vishnu, Indira and Ishvara, I am the fundamental nature of all things, the only nature, i have gone beyond all kinds of atman. i am emptiness. if you take refuge in me you will be dissapointed. walk on with my insignificant blessing.

best wishes, Tom.

[daelm]

I am Braham, Shiva and Vishnu, Indira and Ishvara, I am the fundamental nature of all things, the only nature, i have gone beyond all kinds of atman. i am emptiness. if you take refuge in me you will be dissapointed. walk on with my insignificant blessing.

best wishes, Tom.

good to know.

thanks.

[dakini_boi]

Why am I bringing this up? Because of the following central questions:

a.) Where does Dzogchen practised by a person who is neither Buddhist, nor accepts the doctrine of anatman or pratityasamutpada (dependent origination) lead to according to traditional textual sources and living oral tradition? Do such people simply get stuck in formless blissful realms or are they simply wasting their time or do they go to Vajra hells....?

At best, rebirth in a nirmanakāya buddhafield.

N

Why in this case, a nirmanakaya buddhafield as opposed to dharmakaya or sambhogakaya?

[Malcolm]

Why am I bringing this up? Because of the following central questions:

a.) Where does Dzogchen practised by a person who is neither Buddhist, nor accepts the doctrine of anatman or pratityasamutpada (dependent origination) lead to according to traditional textual sources and living oral tradition? Do such people simply get stuck in formless blissful realms or are they simply wasting their time or do they go to Vajra hells....?

At best, rebirth in a nirmanakāya buddhafield.

N

Why in this case, a nirmanakaya buddhafield as opposed to dharmakaya or sambhogakaya?

Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.

N

[kalden yungdrung]

Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.

Tashi delek,

- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?

Mutsog Marro
KY

[Malcolm]

Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.

Tashi delek,

- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?

Mutsog Marro
KY

People below the path of seeing. Regular people.

[kalden yungdrung]

Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.

Tashi delek,

- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?

Mutsog Marro
KY

People below the path of seeing. Regular people.

Tashi delek,

Thanks for the replies.

- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.

Best wishes

Mutsog Marro
KY

[Malcolm]

- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.

Worldly paths:
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.

Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)

[Paul]

- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.

Worldly paths:
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.

Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)

How do the Dzogchen and Mahamudra path(s) fit with these framework?

[Malcolm]

- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.

Worldly paths:
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.

Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)

There are various schemes -- for the mahamudra scheme you can look in the mahamudra threads here. For Dzogchen, third vision of thögal = path of seeing.



How do the Dzogchen and Mahamudra path(s) fit with these framework?