Just had to eat. Before starting I like to say I hope I understood you well. It is best to write simple and short sentences so we don't misunderstand each other. Also there are two other aspects which I will not bring into discussion as it might complicate things.
Yes i can follow that when someone becomes a Buddha, i for instance, do not become/"have" that State. But what happenes when one is in that State according Dzogchen? There is no dualism possible.....
So I assume here you are mainly concerned with the practitioner, someone like yourself, not deities or very high bhumi beings. I hope I understand what you mean by this part.KY
Yes I see here the practitioner like you and me who does realise something and is not attaining something.But username tell me please which of the 2 positions do you adhere , one , both or no and why?
So we are going slowly off the topic and that is not a good case. It is not the meaning to go in details too much about other related topics.
Also I am trying to answer for you mainly from what I have read of you in the past. So this answer is mainly for you not generally. There is no dualism. KY
There is dualism for the Mind of ego or the ignorant ego
Dualism only appears in our karmic vision as a false illusion arising from circumstances in the limited dimension of time and space and causalities. A good understanding of rolpa clears this but lets keep it simple. Take a cup, if you can only look at it from the top or bottom then it seems completely different if we didn't know it. KY:
In our karmic vision illusion seems to be real. One makes real what is not and what is real one makes illusion of that.
All we do with the mind of karma is reasoned (thoughts) by the dualistic mind according Dzogchen and represents dualism or illusions. This is a normal happening in our daily life, based on thoughts etc. It is good to have + thoughts. Further the misconception in dualism would be that the objects are outside and there is the watcher or the subject.
So the dualism we are trapped in and which is all we know as ignorants is not the true full reality. There is no duality. KY:
There is duality in the mind of karma and that mind call some the ignorant ego.
Ultimately one has to realize the levels of dbang, rolpa and tsal for this but to start off I think it is best if you first ask your teacher for a description of lhundrub suited to your thinking. He knows you better and probably knows what triggers work better on you. KY:
There are first the general Dzogchen teachings devided for me in:
Kordo Rushen with the sem dzins / Trekchod and Thodgal where is explained:
Emptiness according Dzogchen view, Tsal, Gzhi, Lamps, lights and sounds with all kind of examples and methods like Tsalung Trulkor, special Dzogchen Yoga etc.
Also a good way of practice is according Longde / Semsde and Mengagde
Basically if one manages to be in rigpa (special knowing) of dharmakaya fully and totally, then one realizes our limited dimension is a projection on various levels and at the base true primordial level it is not in essence existent. KY:
To be in the NS is not to be aware of realising limited things. There are no limits etc in this state.
Limited things are based on dualisms and in the NS does not exist dualisms
At the gross level, it is just an ornament, like a little foam on top of a vast deep ocean but really that is not quite correct either, it is just how it appears. It is a limited clarity-only aspect of it. Like sun rays in the sky which do not alter the space. Your body takes up some space in your room but your room also takes up the whole of that space (including your body's space) in the house. So they are different levels but subsets of each other. Your body's space is a subset of the room space.KY:
Regarding space and space there is no difference. When I break down a house then the inner space of the house is equal to the outer space. What will be different is that Rigpa has more for us namely:
Clearness, Lights, sounds, radiance and Tsal. So basic is here the emptiness which counts for both entities. And out of this emptiness / empty state is all/ everything is emerging like thoughts, good and bad etc.
Different levels and different points of views but the same space. In the same way the tri-kayas are non-dual too. Just appear different from different eyes of different types of beings. Those infinite karmic visions do not change the tri-kayas ultimate true state. When you are in the state, fully, then that is realized.KY:
When in the NS one does realises first there is no dualism you “know” this by the Yeshe which is self emergent. We own also the 3 Kayas at the moment and by one kaya one can get enlightened.
So here we deal with a temporal self with thoughts or not.
Again at the gross level a self appears but it is not there. It has no border if you put it under a microscope, empty space inside atoms and particles too, within time which is relative and fake and even space which is slightly more valid is ultimately false too. Plus all the other deconstructions that Nagarjuna and others make. KY:
In so far a self based on misconception is a body which is illusion, temporal, dualistic, composed, is born and dies. The mind is misunderstood and there is the creation of ego which is ignorant about the Sugatagarbha. So the body of illusion is there we have it and that is the working base to get enlightened. So the illusionary body is a very precious case, isn’t it?
There really is nothing there as a separate self or object or even time or even space and as you go into higher levels this becomes more and more true. There is the ultimate truth, not the subjective flasehoods of many within illusory fake dimensions. Also see my last paragraph below.KY:
There is a separate self or ego which is there for some since an endless time. This is already for some a frozen reality. We mostly deal here with this mentality when we are busy in Dharma with helping. This is the working base, this temporal illusionary body with its happiness and suffering
There is also something as a State without thoughts and this is Rigpa and here is no concept of a self , in my opinion
Not necessarily, you could be in an empty state of being without clarity. This is the main fault with Chaan/Zen and certain Tibetan practitioners who died but not really and were in a frozen state for many years or decades. There is a procedure for bringing them back to life briefly and do a phowa. Some formless beings also stay like that for eons, arahats is a slighlty different case. So not all thoughtlessness is rigpa. Not to mention hedewa. Rigpa is actually the wrong word on its own and a more correct phrase should be rigpa of kadak and lhundrub non-dual.KY:
Rigpa does encompass also the thoughts. Rigpa does encompass everything. A state without thoughts not based on clearity and emptiness is not good whereas one calls this Zen or not.
Further do thoughts not obstruct a Dzogchenpa when he is in the NS. But if the Zen meditation would be a blank state like discussed in the Samye debate, I do not know because I am not a Zen follower.
Forgot to mention that Rigpa covers all in this case also the mind of illusion, but latter mentioned cannot be aware of that State (NS), that is called Ma Rigpa when i understood it well.
Yes the second part is true but when you are in perfect rigpa of kadak/lhundrub, then you effortlessly span the lower gross dimensions (our world as it appears to most) simultaneously and spontaneously and effortlessly. This is what we call integration.
It starts with Semde/essence Mahamudra and for a rainbow body can be deveolped in Longde or the more comprehensive Mengagde. The worldly dimension becomes second nature while the rigpa of primordial state stays king. Like a baby who at first has to think about walking but when he grows up he just walks. KY:
The second part is true so what is the first part and why seems this not to be true?
It starts with the emptiness aspect in Trekchod and is sublimated in Thodgal by the lamps where there is Yermed of emptiness and clearity. This is according my practice. The worldly dimensions come, stay and dissolve in the Nature like they always do. Everything is arising, staying for a while and goes back to the Nature. So everything is encompassed by Rigpa = Nature