Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Fa Dao » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:31 pm

Namdrol,
dont sugarcoat it...tell us how you REALLY feel :twothumbsup:
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby rai » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:33 pm

...
Last edited by rai on Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disdaining the lower and unable to grasp the higher,
talking of emptiness, such a person will neglect cause and effect,
mouthing on about the view while in a state of self-deception.
It would be better to concentrate on the gradual path.

"Creation and Completion" Jamgon Kongtrul
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby adinatha » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:41 pm

Thanks for all the clarifications guys. We need to have all these Dzogchen tantras translated. You figure someone is working on it no?
CAW!
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby dzoki » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:16 pm

adinatha wrote:Thanks for all the clarifications guys. We need to have all these Dzogchen tantras translated. You figure someone is working on it no?

Sure Jim Valby, Adriano Clemente and Elio Guarisco, have just completed their project of translating Mejung tantra from semde, it will be out this summer. Published by shangshung institute. Also Jim Valby is working on translation of the commentary on kunje gyalpo tantra which of course includes complete translation of the tantra itself. I heard that Jim has translated all of the dzogchen tantras availeble in Nyingma Gyubum, but Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche did not accept them as valid, because there vere some misintrepretation and mistakes. In any case work is being done and for sure, Jim and the other translators working with Namkhai Norbu are improving their skills and they do a hell of the work. So I hope that sooner or later we will have at least some of the tantras availeable in English.
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:24 pm

dzoki wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
pemachophel wrote:So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again. :-)



Tell them to mind their own f^&%ing business.

N

Well that wouldn´t be a very polite answer to your lama.



Well, it is not a very goddamn polite question.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby gnegirl » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:30 pm

:popcorn:
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby heart » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:36 pm

pemachophel wrote:So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again. :-)

Thanks


Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:41 pm

heart wrote:
pemachophel wrote:So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again. :-)

Thanks


Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

/magnus



ChNN verifies his own terma. You can read the account of how he verified Mandarava for example, in his account of the teachings.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Pero » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:52 pm

heart wrote:
pemachophel wrote:So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again. :-)

Thanks


Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

Sorry but who is Yeshe Dorje? Is he maybe Chatral Rinpoche's student that posted on E-Sangha for a while? :shrug:
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby heart » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:53 pm

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:
pemachophel wrote:So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again. :-)

Thanks


Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

Sorry but who is Yeshe Dorje? Is he maybe Chatral Rinpoche's student that posted on E-Sangha for a while? :shrug:


Yes, that's him.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:55 pm

heart wrote:

Yes, that's him.

/magnus


He is back in Nepal.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby username » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:26 pm

Whenever someone foolishly brings this up, year after year, it ends up with Chatral Rinpoche as the ultimate authority to verify terma! I always tell them in the last half a century or more many well recognized tertons met Chatral Rinpoche but he usually doesn't verify terma. This is a historic norm for many masters. But most of recent tertons outside Tibet in the last fifty years, dead or alive, were/are his students and followers. He rarely accepts gifts and other things. He rarely writes long life prayers but he wrote one for ChNNR and ChNNR is the only master I know who has not revealed such a rare honor to be recited by students. Chatral Rinpoche always defends ChNNR when unholy mouths get busy and he hears about it. So those busybodies who are always itching to jump on this and similar bandwagons should wonder more about their own nature and practices.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby rai » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:51 pm

username wrote:Whenever someone foolishly brings this up, year after year, it ends up with Chatral Rinpoche as the ultimate authority to verify terma! I always tell them in the last half a century or more many well recognized tertons met Chatral Rinpoche but he usually doesn't verify terma. This is a historic norm for many masters. But most of recent tertons outside Tibet in the last fifty years, dead or alive, were/are his students and followers. He rarely accepts gifts and other things. He rarely writes long life prayers but he wrote one for ChNNR and ChNNR is the only master I know who has not revealed such a rare honor to be recited by students. Chatral Rinpoche always defends ChNNR when unholy mouths get busy and he hears about it. So those busybodies who are always itching to jump on this and similar bandwagons should wonder more about their own nature and practices.


I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?
Disdaining the lower and unable to grasp the higher,
talking of emptiness, such a person will neglect cause and effect,
mouthing on about the view while in a state of self-deception.
It would be better to concentrate on the gradual path.

"Creation and Completion" Jamgon Kongtrul
rai
 
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby username » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:12 pm

rai wrote:
I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?


What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby gnegirl » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:16 pm

Instead of hear-say...examine the teacher yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Just sayin'
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:24 pm

username wrote:
rai wrote:
I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?


What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?


more importantly, who gives a rat's ass.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Vajrahridaya » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:32 pm

Namdrol wrote:
username wrote:
rai wrote:
I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?


What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?


more importantly, who gives a rat's ass.


Well, to have ChNNR confirmed by historical or older present Masters of high esteem is pretty good for faith I would think. For you it's a given, but for plenty of us new to the world of Vajrayana in this life, it's an excellent thing to know that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatral_Rinpoche is cool with ChNNR. That's awesome to me. :twothumbsup:
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:37 pm

Vajrahridaya wrote:
Well, to have ChNNR confirmed by historical or older present Masters of high esteem is pretty good for faith I would think. For you it's a given, but for plenty of us new to the world of Vajrayana in this life, it's an excellent thing to know that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatral_Rinpoche is cool with ChNNR. That's awesome to me. :twothumbsup:


ChNN never needed any confirmation in the past, he does not need any now, and he won't need any in the future.

If some tibetan asked me that question I would say, "ask him yourself if you really care".

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby adinatha » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:43 pm

dzoki wrote:
adinatha wrote:Thanks for all the clarifications guys. We need to have all these Dzogchen tantras translated. You figure someone is working on it no?

Sure Jim Valby, Adriano Clemente and Elio Guarisco, have just completed their project of translating Mejung tantra from semde, it will be out this summer. Published by shangshung institute. Also Jim Valby is working on translation of the commentary on kunje gyalpo tantra which of course includes complete translation of the tantra itself. I heard that Jim has translated all of the dzogchen tantras availeble in Nyingma Gyubum, but Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche did not accept them as valid, because there vere some misintrepretation and mistakes. In any case work is being done and for sure, Jim and the other translators working with Namkhai Norbu are improving their skills and they do a hell of the work. So I hope that sooner or later we will have at least some of the tantras availeable in English.


It would be nice for the nyingtig to be translated.
CAW!
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Re: Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

Postby rai » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:45 pm

username wrote:
rai wrote:
I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?


What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?


hi :)

I dont have any knowledge on those matters,i've just heard that Chatral Rinpoche is not very appochable person so i was curious how do you know all those things about termas veryfied or not by him and that he always defends CHNNR =)

I am sure it is all true, but sometimes people repeat gossips or something they read on some forums so it sounds as it was something they witnessed, then it is a bit misleading =)
Disdaining the lower and unable to grasp the higher,
talking of emptiness, such a person will neglect cause and effect,
mouthing on about the view while in a state of self-deception.
It would be better to concentrate on the gradual path.

"Creation and Completion" Jamgon Kongtrul
rai
 
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