Origin of the Direct Introduction with Syllable Phat

[Fa Dao]

Namdrol,
dont sugarcoat it...tell us how you REALLY feel

[rai]

...

[adinatha]

Thanks for all the clarifications guys. We need to have all these Dzogchen tantras translated. You figure someone is working on it no?

[dzoki]

Thanks for all the clarifications guys. We need to have all these Dzogchen tantras translated. You figure someone is working on it no?

Sure Jim Valby, Adriano Clemente and Elio Guarisco, have just completed their project of translating Mejung tantra from semde, it will be out this summer. Published by shangshung institute. Also Jim Valby is working on translation of the commentary on kunje gyalpo tantra which of course includes complete translation of the tantra itself. I heard that Jim has translated all of the dzogchen tantras availeble in Nyingma Gyubum, but Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche did not accept them as valid, because there vere some misintrepretation and mistakes. In any case work is being done and for sure, Jim and the other translators working with Namkhai Norbu are improving their skills and they do a hell of the work. So I hope that sooner or later we will have at least some of the tantras availeable in English.

[Malcolm]

So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again.

Tell them to mind their own f^&%ing business.

N

Well that wouldn´t be a very polite answer to your lama.

Well, it is not a very goddamn polite question.

[gnegirl]

[heart]

So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again.

Thanks

Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

/magnus

[Malcolm]

So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again.

Thanks

Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

/magnus

ChNN verifies his own terma. You can read the account of how he verified Mandarava for example, in his account of the teachings.

[Pero]

So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again.

Thanks

Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

Sorry but who is Yeshe Dorje? Is he maybe Chatral Rinpoche's student that posted on E-Sangha for a while?

[heart]

So that I can better counter the arguments of potential critics, can you tell me what Lama(s) has/have verified ChNNR's terma? This very conversation came up not even two weeks ago with another Lama. Frankly, I was at a loss as to what to say. I would prefer not to be caught in the same situation again.

Thanks

Ask Yeshe Dorje, I think he mentioned to me once that ChNN brought a Terma to Chatral Rinpoche for verification. I might be wrong but that is what I recall.

Sorry but who is Yeshe Dorje? Is he maybe Chatral Rinpoche's student that posted on E-Sangha for a while?

Yes, that's him.

/magnus

[Malcolm]

Yes, that's him.

/magnus

He is back in Nepal.

[username]

Whenever someone foolishly brings this up, year after year, it ends up with Chatral Rinpoche as the ultimate authority to verify terma! I always tell them in the last half a century or more many well recognized tertons met Chatral Rinpoche but he usually doesn't verify terma. This is a historic norm for many masters. But most of recent tertons outside Tibet in the last fifty years, dead or alive, were/are his students and followers. He rarely accepts gifts and other things. He rarely writes long life prayers but he wrote one for ChNNR and ChNNR is the only master I know who has not revealed such a rare honor to be recited by students. Chatral Rinpoche always defends ChNNR when unholy mouths get busy and he hears about it. So those busybodies who are always itching to jump on this and similar bandwagons should wonder more about their own nature and practices.

[rai]

Whenever someone foolishly brings this up, year after year, it ends up with Chatral Rinpoche as the ultimate authority to verify terma! I always tell them in the last half a century or more many well recognized tertons met Chatral Rinpoche but he usually doesn't verify terma. This is a historic norm for many masters. But most of recent tertons outside Tibet in the last fifty years, dead or alive, were/are his students and followers. He rarely accepts gifts and other things. He rarely writes long life prayers but he wrote one for ChNNR and ChNNR is the only master I know who has not revealed such a rare honor to be recited by students. Chatral Rinpoche always defends ChNNR when unholy mouths get busy and he hears about it. So those busybodies who are always itching to jump on this and similar bandwagons should wonder more about their own nature and practices.

I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?

[username]

I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?

What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?

[gnegirl]

Instead of hear-say...examine the teacher yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Just sayin'

[Malcolm]

I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?

What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?

more importantly, who gives a rat's ass.

[Vajrahridaya]

I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?

What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?

more importantly, who gives a rat's ass.

Well, to have ChNNR confirmed by historical or older present Masters of high esteem is pretty good for faith I would think. For you it's a given, but for plenty of us new to the world of Vajrayana in this life, it's an excellent thing to know that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatral_Rinpoche is cool with ChNNR. That's awesome to me.

[Malcolm]

Well, to have ChNNR confirmed by historical or older present Masters of high esteem is pretty good for faith I would think. For you it's a given, but for plenty of us new to the world of Vajrayana in this life, it's an excellent thing to know that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatral_Rinpoche is cool with ChNNR. That's awesome to me.

ChNN never needed any confirmation in the past, he does not need any now, and he won't need any in the future.

If some tibetan asked me that question I would say, "ask him yourself if you really care".

N

[adinatha]

Thanks for all the clarifications guys. We need to have all these Dzogchen tantras translated. You figure someone is working on it no?

Sure Jim Valby, Adriano Clemente and Elio Guarisco, have just completed their project of translating Mejung tantra from semde, it will be out this summer. Published by shangshung institute. Also Jim Valby is working on translation of the commentary on kunje gyalpo tantra which of course includes complete translation of the tantra itself. I heard that Jim has translated all of the dzogchen tantras availeble in Nyingma Gyubum, but Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche did not accept them as valid, because there vere some misintrepretation and mistakes. In any case work is being done and for sure, Jim and the other translators working with Namkhai Norbu are improving their skills and they do a hell of the work. So I hope that sooner or later we will have at least some of the tantras availeable in English.

It would be nice for the nyingtig to be translated.

[rai]

I am just curious how do you know all those details? first hand informations or some Buddhists forums?

What details? About Chatral Rinpoche being very conservative yet a guru of ChNNR who is one of the few living people to have a long life prayer by CR? These are all well known general facts in DC. Tell me which other living terton's terma has been verified by him?

hi

I dont have any knowledge on those matters,i've just heard that Chatral Rinpoche is not very appochable person so i was curious how do you know all those things about termas veryfied or not by him and that he always defends CHNNR =)

I am sure it is all true, but sometimes people repeat gossips or something they read on some forums so it sounds as it was something they witnessed, then it is a bit misleading =)