Pema Rigdzin wrote:
padma norbu wrote:...the Vajrayana aspiration is to see EVERYTHING as perfect including samsara.
I believe the aspiration in Vajrayana not to see samsara as such
as perfect, but rather to see that what in delusion is experienced as samsara is in fact, the display of enlightenment. This may seem like semantics or splitting hairs, but I don't think it is. If one is a really astute Mahayoga practitioner, for instance, one may be walking around town and happen upon someone physically attacking someone. One will intuit the deep truth of the enlightened nature of what's being perceived, but one does not disregard the relative condition and go merrily on one's way, singing "emaho, the display of purity and equality!" and let the beating continue... One has compassion for the victim (and attacker) and one tries to intervene and/or call the police.
Yes, this is what I was trying to analyze, but (perhaps I'm wrong), I quickly came to the conclusion that perhaps from the relative perspective, it's just never really going to make sense how this is "perfect" or a display of enlightenment since the relative is always concerned with, well, the relative and with reifying experience as good, bad, etc. I mean, I don't want to repeat myself, but I did earlier explain all the ways in which I can clearly see everything as "perfect," and, actually, to the extent it seems less than perfect is really minute compared the ways in which I can see it is
I guess I just started the thread to see if others found themselves going through the same mental blocks as me now and again. My thinking can get me tied in knots for a while and I struggle to remember how I got out of these same knots the last time I thought along the same lines... I'm glad Dzogchen practice is about going beyond thoughts.
Here's some extractions from a longer article I just found on Google in 2 seconds... It's easier than flipping through a lot of books to find passages where I've read such things before:
As we go through the vajrayana we can say, "My motivation is to awaken the wisdom that sees everything as perfect in every possible way, with nothing excluded...
We are saying that perfectly endowed, complete enlightenment begins with our motivation to regard everything we experience right now—and the whole world—as perfect and pristine...
We are pretending, in the sense that we are projecting our intention to see it this way. But the vajrayana teachings are saying that fundamentally, this great purity and great equality—in the Shambhala teachings, "basic goodness"—is the ground nature of everything. They are telling us that if we see it this way, we will experience great wisdom and great bliss...
The vajrayana motivation is represented by the mandala. The world is a perfect mandala...Everything within that display has equal value, but it is all radiating from a center. The guru is the same as the deity, the deity is the same as the retinue, and the mandala is the same as the environment, so it is all perfect in that way. There is no separation. This implies that it never strays from its original ground of understanding—innate wisdom. In vajrayana practice, we are learning to see the world this way...
Right now, it may seem that we live on an uneven ground; we have to walk up and we have to walk down. It is very painful—hot and cold and so forth. You may ask, "Is that perfect?" Looking at it from our usual perspective—no, it is not perfect. In fact, it is called samsara, where beings have the dualistic view of up and a down, self and other. To someone with the vajrayana attitude, however, this is the perfect abode of the Buddha. The consciousness that is in this abode sees no separation from its environment...
Holding the vajrayana attitude is not being hyper—it's being awake. It is knowing the potential of every moment. We are buddhas with a mind of equality, which is understanding that one moment is no more sacred than the next. There are no good days or bad days in vajrayana. It is beyond that; it is perfect. That's why it is called great perfection.
Please read so you see the context.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron