Space and Dzogchen

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Paul
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Space and Dzogchen

Postby Paul » Fri May 20, 2011 12:52 pm

I'd like to talk about space. :alien:

In my understanding of Dzogchen, there are three kinds of space that we can talk about. There's the ordinary, dualistic outer space in which things exist. In relation to the practice of Trekcho practice, there are two other types that are discovered. There is also the inner space of the mind where thoughts etc. are experienced as being without any kind of actual 'place' of appearing or thing that creates them. This is inner ying - nang ying (nang dbyings). The outer space has a similar nature, where there is no fixed place to things that arise and they are not solid or within any kind of objective frame of reference. Basically, there's no place they arise, stay or disappear - similar to the nature of the mind. This is outer ying - chos ying.

I've a few questions/things I'd like to discuss:
Is there anything other than a nominal difference between outer ying and inner ying? What exactly is the relation between normal space and the two yings? Is it simply ying that has been frozen by grasping?
To what extent can space said to be emptiness itself? I know that there is a danger in Dzogchen of merely meditating on space.
What is the exact relationship between inner ying, outer ying and rigpa? It's my understanding that the yings are the space-like nature of rigpa.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Paul
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Re: Space and Dzogchen

Postby Paul » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:56 pm

No one have something to say? I thought it was an interesting topic...
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Malcolm
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Re: Space and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:06 pm

Hayagriva wrote:No one have something to say? I thought it was an interesting topic...



it is, that is why can't say much about it.
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adinatha
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Re: Space and Dzogchen

Postby adinatha » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:14 pm

I'll start: space is just empty. The mind is space like in the sense there is nothing to be seen there. But it is not space, because it is your mind which experiences everything.
CAW!

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gnegirl
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Re: Space and Dzogchen

Postby gnegirl » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:43 am

:popcorn:
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?

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heart
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Re: Space and Dzogchen

Postby heart » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:56 am

Hayagriva wrote:I'd like to talk about space. :alien:

In my understanding of Dzogchen, there are three kinds of space that we can talk about. There's the ordinary, dualistic outer space in which things exist. In relation to the practice of Trekcho practice, there are two other types that are discovered. There is also the inner space of the mind where thoughts etc. are experienced as being without any kind of actual 'place' of appearing or thing that creates them. This is inner ying - nang ying (nang dbyings). The outer space has a similar nature, where there is no fixed place to things that arise and they are not solid or within any kind of objective frame of reference. Basically, there's no place they arise, stay or disappear - similar to the nature of the mind. This is outer ying - chos ying.

I've a few questions/things I'd like to discuss:
Is there anything other than a nominal difference between outer ying and inner ying? What exactly is the relation between normal space and the two yings? Is it simply ying that has been frozen by grasping?
To what extent can space said to be emptiness itself? I know that there is a danger in Dzogchen of merely meditating on space.
What is the exact relationship between inner ying, outer ying and rigpa? It's my understanding that the yings are the space-like nature of rigpa.


What you are talking about here is a Dzogchen practice called mingling the three-fold space. My understanding is that you are supposed to apply it not discuss it. Anyway, just to say something, none of the three spaces are inherently dualistic.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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mindyourmind
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Re: Space and Dzogchen

Postby mindyourmind » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:13 pm

Here is a good spot to use the :alien: smiley.

I always wanted to do that, but never had a wonderfully appropriate opportunity. Like this is.

Other than that ..... :reading:
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu


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