Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

DGA
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby DGA » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:12 pm


oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:36 pm


Dronma
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:37 pm

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Karma Dorje » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:33 pm

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:27 pm


Dronma
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:39 pm

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:24 am


oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:03 am

Re Karma Dorje's comments: apples and bananas. We differ in our appraisal of things, though we agree on some facts.

Yes, the webcasts are wonderful and are very helpful to many people, especially the disabled.
It is also wonderful that 2000 + people can access the teachings through the webcasts.

I am thinking of the other folks and how to help them too. There are a lot of other folks.

I sincerely believe that everyone has the Buddha seed in them and that if the precious Teachings of ChNNR can be presented in a more open-hearted, less costly, manner, then many more people will get the benefit of these precious Teachings leading to realization in one life time.

I applaud K Yeshe's successful career in IT and his application of management techniques to the organization of retreats. The retreats are now much better organized than before. Hurrah for K Yeshe's management skills!!!

I have NO aggression towards K Yeshe, passive or otherwise. This is entirely your phrase, and construction, not mine. If even one person is helped by K Yeshe's "new" presentation of Dzogchen, this is wonderful and I sincerely applaud that. How could I not? I am completely sincere when I have said before that everyone should send "hugs" to K Yeshe. He has gone way out on a limb in creating his "New Dzogchen" and I sincerely wish him all the best. If K Yeshe can give transmission, then whatever he teaches will be Dzogchen and he will do fine.

My sincere fear, as pointed to above, is that if his "New Dzogchen" is not financially successful, then K Yeshe might shut down access to the DC archives and use his private access to market "new" versions of what is in the archives. I don't say this to be aggressive towards K Yeshe at all. This is an honest appraisal based on 30+ years of observation. If ChNNR gives his blessing to all of this, then it is K Yeshe's moral and legal right to do whatever he wants to with his father's Teachings, and I completely support that.

If ChNNR chooses to allow equal access to all of his Teachings, this will allow for for the DC to flourish and prosper, regardless of whatever K Yeshe, or SSI, or any "power people," choose to do to limit access to the Teachings. This is why I am calling equal access, the key point of open-hearted kindness.

If enough people write to ChNNR, giving short, polite, and reasoned arguments, I sincerely believe he may, working with circumstances, allow equal access.

:heart:

ob

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:50 pm


Dronma
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:58 pm

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

T. Chokyi
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:28 am



April 26-28

From Tepoztlan, Morelos, Mexico
Retreat: “Longsal Atii Nadzer – The most important points of Ati Yoga for introducing to the primordial state"
GMT -5 hours
Teaching program:

Friday April 26
5:00 to 7:00 pm

Saturday April 27
10:00 to 12:00 am
4:00 to 6:00 pm (followed at 6:30 pm by a short Ganapuja )

Sunday April 28
10:00 to 12:00 am

In the Webcast Site http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast
You will find updated SCHEDULE and information.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:15 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:54 pm

:namaste:

In the luminosity beyond any characteristic what-so-ever there is no question of dualistic perceptions dividing anything into this and that. Everything IS perfect just as it is.

The Dzogchen Community is in a period of transition and while we still have the opportunity to bring our concerns to our precious Master (may he live in good health forever) – perhaps it is wise and prudent that we do so.

There are real issues facing the Dzogchen Community that need to be addressed by our precious Master and by the greater Dzogchen Community.

1. Who legally and morally owns the most precious Longsal Terma Teachings of ChNNR? These may be two different questions. Are the practices contained in the Collected Works part of the world’s cultural heritage, or are they the possession of one individual or legal entity?

2. How will access to these precious Teachings be controlled after the passing of ChNNR?

3. Who will provide the Direct Introduction? Will there still be a World Wide Transmission? Can DI from other Masters / other traditions count as DI in the permission /access structure of the DC?

4. Who will provide the permissions to have access to the transcripts and recorded media? How will these permissions, and this access, be provided? What purpose do these permissions serve, and are they really needed, in the age of “everything on the web?”

5. Who will provide the permissions to actually do the practices? How will these permissions be provided? What purpose do these permissions serve, and are they really needed, in the context of the Ven. Longchenpa / Ven. Jigme Lingpa, permissions: permissions given in a dream / vision?

6. Who will provide instruction in the various practices? How will this be controlled? What purpose does this control have, and is it really needed, in the context of small groups meeting on the web, and in person, to read the transcripts, to listen and watch the recorded media, and to practice together?

The power people who are currently advising Rinpoche have their viewpoints.

I am not judging these viewpoints as good or bad.

Perhaps other viewpoints need to be heard.

The heart of the matter is that these most precious Teachings, leading to realization in one lifetime, need to be preserved in the luminous hearts of practitioners, who accomplish the Teachings.

This is the key point of equal access.

How can we help this to happen?

:heart:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby MalaBeads » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:57 pm

Oldbob,

I think you are asking a lot of important questions. Questions that would never have arisen in old Tibet but do indeed, for better or worse, arise in the world that we currently live in.

I have no answers and not even any ideas. The question i have for you is: is this the most appropriate place to ask those questions? Of course, there aresome DC people who read these pages but i wonder if the discussion would not be most appropriate in a DC forum where more people who are directly involved could participate.

Isn't there a DC blog that was started some time ago for members? If you want to discuss such things in a public forum, that might be the place.

I have heard - or read perhaps? - that Rinpoche has concerns that after he is gone, DC will be divided into many factions all fighting with each other, not unlike what happened after the Buddha passed away. I can understand that concern and your questions here only highlight that possibility. Transitions are not easy, especially in today's world. I worry too and i am not anywhere, anywhere, anywhere near as involved as others are and have been.

I appreciate your effort to keep clarifying the issues involved so people can understand what may occur.

I love Rinpoche and want him to be as strong and healthy as possible for as long as possible. And he and you and everyone involved is correct, i think, in your efforts to be as prepared as possible for the future. Its funny what we remember - or don't remember. I don't remember hearing anything about a "new dzogchen" from KY but as you say, it was the middle of the night here too and towards the end of the YL retreat i found myself drifting off a bit here and there so maybe it was as you say. I don't really know.

For my own peace of mind, and only my own i must say, I would like to hear a bit more from KY or Rinpoche about how they see the transition. Rinpoche's, and at the moment secondarily, KY's, intentions are what is most important, not our worries. If ever there was a person with an open heart, it is Rinpoche. That is not my concern at all.

Anyway, thats all i have to say.

Cheers.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

Simon E.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Simon E. » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:48 pm

My 2 cents.
This is not the place for those questions.


:anjali:
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Arnoud
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Arnoud » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:28 pm

I think OldBob asks some very good, and legitimate, questions.

I just wonder why he doesn't ask them at vajracakra.org as there are many more CNN students there.

Dronma
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:55 pm

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

Dan Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dan Dorje » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:10 pm

When I have seen for the first time "My Reincarnation" at cinema, at the end, someone asked:
"Do you want to make publicity to your community and teacher, no?"
Jennifer Fox gave a very intelligent response, something like:
"I have presented the relation between my Teacher and his son very open and without hiding anything.
Usually when people are making publicity, they are trying to exagerate pleasant things and are trying to hide unpleasant things."

I think this is the situation of this thread, also.

If someone thinks that there exists such sangha without problems and is turned back by Bob's words, maybe that person is not enough mature.
In my opinion, a difference between one sangha and another could be only if they accept (or not) their problems and if they are working (or not) to solve them.
As long as we are deluded (and we are all deluded until Total Realization), there could be no perfect sangha.
But we can collaborate to improve things.

What I like in DC is that they are not trying to make publicity or to show things in a way to just attract people.

:namaste:

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florin
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby florin » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:37 pm

April 25 – Mexico DF - at 7:30 pm (GMT -5)

Public talk: “The real condition of the Individual, Dzogchen”
from: Foro Polanco, Moliere 328, entre Homero y Ejercito Nacional, Mexico

Open Webcast
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"


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