Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:27 pm

simhanada wrote:
heart wrote:Just a small comment, I think when ChNNR says "main practice" he means Semde, Longde and Mengakde. Rushan and Semdzin are actually preliminaries to the Mengakde.
/magnus


Cool, thankyou for the clarification

FYi yantra is a secondary practice.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:36 pm

simhanada wrote:FYi yantra is a secondary practice.


How do you understand the differentiation of main and secondary practices Malcolm?

As simple as Guruyoga and everything else?

Or as Magnus suggested Semde, Longde. Mannagde?

Where does Yantra and Dance fall under that schema?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:21 pm

simhanada wrote:
simhanada wrote:FYi yantra is a secondary practice.


How do you understand the differentiation of main and secondary practices Malcolm?

As simple as Guruyoga and everything else?

Or as Magnus suggested Semde, Longde. Mannagde?

Where does Yantra and Dance fall under that schema?


The only essential practice is ate guru yoga. However, we cannot spend our whole life sounding A, so we have other practices too.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:26 pm

Malcolm wrote:The only essential practice is ate guru yoga. However, we cannot spend our whole life sounding A, so we have other practices too.


Thanks
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:46 pm

simhanada wrote:
Malcolm wrote:The only essential practice is ate guru yoga. However, we cannot spend our whole life sounding A, so we have other practices too.


Thanks


Hurrah - dialog works!!!

Thank you all and All! :thanks: :namaste:

In summary:

Having received the pointing out instruction / experience, I do my best to remain in Guru Yoga 24/7.

Everything else is gravy.

The gravy is what makes life interesting. It means doing my best to integrate with whatever arises (or doesn't arise) in my continuum.

So I sum this up in the phrase, "Watch it and let it go." I am never saying this. This is what I do (non dually). :smile: This is not an intention or a willful act.

It is an un-named display of being in the natural state of Guru Yoga: the famous snake untying its' own knot, etc.

In fact there is nothing to say. :smile:

:heart:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:41 pm

Malcolm wrote:
simhanada wrote:
simhanada wrote:FYi yantra is a secondary practice.


How do you understand the differentiation of main and secondary practices Malcolm?

As simple as Guruyoga and everything else?

Or as Magnus suggested Semde, Longde. Mannagde?

Where does Yantra and Dance fall under that schema?


The only essential practice is ate guru yoga. However, we cannot spend our whole life sounding A, so we have other practices too.


The way ChNNR explains the Guru Yoga with a white Ah I would say that, if you understand the difference between means and knowledge or main practice and secondary, it is Trechö and so belongs to Mengakde.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:50 am

heart wrote:The way ChNNR explains the Guru Yoga with a white Ah I would say that, if you understand the difference between means and knowledge or main practice and secondary, it is Trechö and so belongs to Mengakde.

Yeah, in one book Rinpoche actually says that this way of doing GY is more Yangti style. But, though the method may be from mengagde, IMO this covers all three series. There is not one kind of dzogchen in semde, a different kind in longde and another kind in mengagde.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:21 am

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:The way ChNNR explains the Guru Yoga with a white Ah I would say that, if you understand the difference between means and knowledge or main practice and secondary, it is Trechö and so belongs to Mengakde.

Yeah, in one book Rinpoche actually says that this way of doing GY is more Yangti style. But, though the method may be from mengagde, IMO this covers all three series. There is not one kind of dzogchen in semde, a different kind in longde and another kind in mengagde.


All manuals do separate them on the basis of view and method and this is also true about the ati, chitti and yangti. It certainly aims for the same point, but that could be said for all the nine yanas if one would like to. It is quite interesting, the guru yoga with a white ah, the way it goes from visualization to resting in the natural state. For me it kind of sums up the intention of the inner tantras.

/magnus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Blue Garuda » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:53 am

MERIGAR WEST RETREAT

2012: 31st Aug. - 6th Sept.

Longsal Atii Gongpa Gojyed

(Tib. Klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed)
OPEN WEBCAST

TIME ZONE: GMT+2

31st Aug. 4pm - 6pm.

This day is the Full Moon, After Doing a short introduction about this retreat teaching, we altogether do a Short Gana Puja.

1st Sept. 10am-12pm.

I give a transmition of Ati Guru Yoga with the Tridlung of Short Thun Practice.

2nd Sept. 10am-12pm.

Giving the Nyamtrid of Ati Gongpa Gojyed and giving tridlung of Medium Thun Practice.

3rd Sept. 10-12am.

Giving the Nyamtrid of Ati Gongpa Gojyed continue and giving tridlung of Medium Gana Puja.

4th Sept. 10-12am.

Giving the Nyamtrid of Ati Gongpa Gojyed continue and giving tridlung of Longer Thun Practice.

5th Sept. 10-12am.

Giving the Nyamtrid of Ati Gongpa Gojyed till the end and all complete tridlung of Atii Gongpa Gojyed text.

5th Sept. 4-7pm. We do Gana Puja for the end of this retreat and so on.

6th Sept. 10-12am.

Giving some advices for the daily life practices and tridlungs of collective practices and so on. We also do an Ati Guru Yoga altogether for finishing our retreat.



Bye,
The Webcast Team

Is Nyamtrid a word for a form of transmission?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:09 am

Blue Garuda wrote:Is Nyamtrid a word for a form of transmission?


It means experiential teaching.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Blue Garuda » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:15 am

simhanada wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:Is Nyamtrid a word for a form of transmission?


It means experiential teaching.


Thanks. :)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:30 am

heart wrote:
Pero wrote:
heart wrote:The way ChNNR explains the Guru Yoga with a white Ah I would say that, if you understand the difference between means and knowledge or main practice and secondary, it is Trechö and so belongs to Mengakde.

Yeah, in one book Rinpoche actually says that this way of doing GY is more Yangti style. But, though the method may be from mengagde, IMO this covers all three series. There is not one kind of dzogchen in semde, a different kind in longde and another kind in mengagde.


All manuals do separate them on the basis of view and method and this is also true about the ati, chitti and yangti. It certainly aims for the same point, but that could be said for all the nine yanas if one would like to.

The other yanas are not Dzogchen. If there was some kind of huge difference between the three series, teachers wouldn't be using Semde to teach Trekcho.

There was an article about the three series by Elio Guarisco (it's based on Norbu Rinpoche's teachings though) in the DC paper The Mirror. If you're interested I can send the article to you.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:55 pm

Pero wrote:The other yanas are not Dzogchen. If there was some kind of huge difference between the three series, teachers wouldn't be using Semde to teach Trekcho.

There was an article about the three series by Elio Guarisco (it's based on Norbu Rinpoche's teachings though) in the DC paper The Mirror. If you're interested I can send the article to you.


Yes, that would be interesting, please do. But if there is a difference in view it should amount to something.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:13 pm

heart wrote:But if there is a difference in view it should amount to something.

To what do you mean?
Of course I'm not saying there aren't any differences, there certainly are, but rigpa is the same throughout the three series. This is IMO undeniable.
As for the view, I actually don't find the views contradictory but then the explanations of the various views of the three series are not that clear to me. It could be I'm just not smart enough to understand it.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:01 pm

Pero wrote:
heart wrote:But if there is a difference in view it should amount to something.

To what do you mean?
Of course I'm not saying there aren't any differences, there certainly are, but rigpa is the same throughout the three series. This is IMO undeniable.
As for the view, I actually don't find the views contradictory but then the explanations of the various views of the three series are not that clear to me. It could be I'm just not smart enough to understand it.


In general the way the views are defined in all the nine yanas are quite abstract and to understand them fully I think you have to have a deep knowledge of Buddhist philosophy. Still, the whole idea is that the view gets more and more refined and less conceptual. Even within the Mengakde there are the four cycles that have views that are described in this way as increasingly subtle and non-conceptual. Even if it always, even in the lower yanas, it is the same rigpa that we recognize it is obvious that we later might define it conceptually as this or that. I think for example that this is the essential meaning of Karma Lingpas terma translated by John Reynolds as "Self-Liberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness".

Thank you for the article, it was interesting.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:02 pm

heart wrote:
Pero wrote:
heart wrote:But if there is a difference in view it should amount to something.

To what do you mean?
Of course I'm not saying there aren't any differences, there certainly are, but rigpa is the same throughout the three series. This is IMO undeniable.
As for the view, I actually don't find the views contradictory but then the explanations of the various views of the three series are not that clear to me. It could be I'm just not smart enough to understand it.


In general the way the views are defined in all the nine yanas are quite abstract and to understand them fully I think you have to have a deep knowledge of Buddhist philosophy. Still, the whole idea is that the view gets more and more refined and less conceptual. Even within the Mengakde there are the four cycles that have views that are described in this way as increasingly subtle non-conceptual. Even if it always, even in the lower yanas, it is the same rigpa that we recognize it is obvious that we later might define it conceptually as this or that. I think for example that this is the essential meaning of Karma Lingpas terma translated by John Reynolds as "Self-Liberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness".

Thank you for the article, it was interesting.

/magnus



The difference in view in the three series is not conceptual, it is experiential.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:24 pm

Because of the fact that several methods for recognizing rigpa in mengagde are the same in semde and longde (or vice versa) I see no reason to think it is different across the three series.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:34 pm

Pero wrote:Because of the fact that several methods for recognizing rigpa in mengagde are the same in semde and longde (or vice versa) I see no reason to think it is different across the three series.


Ok, whatever you like to beleive.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:35 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Pero wrote:Because of the fact that several methods for recognizing rigpa in mengagde are the same in semde and longde (or vice versa) I see no reason to think it is different across the three series.


Ok, whatever you like to beleive.

But why do you think it's different (without bringing thogal in the mix)?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:42 pm

Pero wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Pero wrote:Because of the fact that several methods for recognizing rigpa in mengagde are the same in semde and longde (or vice versa) I see no reason to think it is different across the three series.


Ok, whatever you like to beleive.

But why do you think it's different (without bringing thogal in the mix)?


You just answered your own question. There is also the fact that sems sde does not result in rainbow body.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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