Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby booker » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:16 am

Mate I wish to know the exact point too. Guess we two are those less gifted.

I believe at the end of public Dharma Talk Rinpoche said "I gave the direct introduction".
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:06 pm

Rinpoché "always" give direct introduction ... if one does not get it, one does not get it.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby booker » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:37 pm

Hehe yeah, I'd guess that's how it is....
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:45 pm

Sönam wrote:Rinpoché "always" give direct introduction ... if one does not get it, one does not get it.

Hmm well not exactly, more like if one does not get it one still gets it. But in any case my recommendation is to listen to as many webcasts as you can.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alpha » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:04 pm

I think we have to actually define what direct introduction is in the context of CNNR's teaching.

I think he is mainly introducing and sharing the knowledge of what Dzogchen means and what it means to be a dzogchenpa via stories ,examples and advice about behaviour.This i understand.But to say that there is some sort of instant Unveiling of something or "getting" something is quite far fetched..

What i am left with after his teachings is scattered pieces because he is destroying everything .
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alpha » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:15 pm

Pero wrote:
Sönam wrote:Rinpoché "always" give direct introduction ... if one does not get it, one does not get it.

Hmm well not exactly, more like if one does not get it one still gets it. But in any case my recommendation is to listen to as many webcasts as you can.


All i can say is that rinpoche is destroying and crashing all my dreams of wanting to practice certain things and because of that i am left floating and without any place of rest .I am a bit scared because there is no more structure.Probably this is what you mean by not getting it but still getting it.Intellectually i cant find anything to rest on but my experience is totally different.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:23 pm

Pero wrote:
Sönam wrote:Rinpoché "always" give direct introduction ... if one does not get it, one does not get it.

Hmm well not exactly, more like if one does not get it one still gets it. But in any case my recommendation is to listen to as many webcasts as you can.


You are right, once more my incredible english ... I shoud have say If one does not realiste it, one does not realize it.

One has to understand than Rinpoché is into a permanent "direct introduction" process while giving teaching ... one can also correct the words :thanks:

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Andrew108 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:06 pm

alpha wrote:All i can say is that rinpoche is destroying and crashing all my dreams of wanting to practice certain things and because of that i am left floating and without any place of rest


Most if not all the practices are related to Guru Yoga - even practices like Garuda. The direct transmission is given in the context of Guru Yoga. I would go as far to say that if you do Guru Yoga you are connecting with all the practices. The Guru Yoga as transmitted by ChNN is a treasure. It's is pretty much the whole thing. Best wishes.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:19 pm

alpha wrote:
What i am left with after his teachings is scattered pieces because he is destroying everything .


Excellent.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Clarence » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:20 pm

Namdrol wrote:
alpha wrote:
What i am left with after his teachings is scattered pieces because he is destroying everything .


Excellent.


Why is that excellent?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:21 pm

Clarence wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
alpha wrote:
What i am left with after his teachings is scattered pieces because he is destroying everything .


Excellent.


Why is that excellent?



Because preconceptions are the hardest thing to drop.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Clarence » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:56 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Because preconceptions are the hardest thing to drop.


But but but... I like my preconceptions and it makes me feel bad when to get away a little.

I will repeat again that I am glad you are taking the time to answer people's questions here.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:33 am

alpha wrote:I think we have to actually define what direct introduction is in the context of CNNR's teaching.

I think he is mainly introducing and sharing the knowledge of what Dzogchen means and what it means to be a dzogchenpa via stories ,examples and advice about behaviour.This i understand.But to say that there is some sort of instant Unveiling of something or "getting" something is quite far fetched..

What i am left with after his teachings is scattered pieces because he is destroying everything .


It would be far-fetched to claim that that will be everyone's experience, true indeed. But it would be equally far-fetched to say that that will not be anyone's experience. Just try to drop your expectations and keep participating and allow your knowledge to open up organically. You cannot control it. Now, my knowledge of Dzogchen is still like a baby's, but one thing I do understand is that it is not realized by one's own conceptual effort or striving or grasping. Better to try to relax a little and allow oneself a little more joy. Keep listening to Rinpoche's teachings and allow the rest of those scattered pieces to be further demolished! Whatever they used to be before they were scattered were just obstruction of real knowledge anyway.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alpha » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:31 am

I have a question about GY. of white A -about the very short version.
Are we supposed to let go of visualization when it is said that we rest in clarity?

Actually i have second question.
What clarity ?

This is most essential ,short ,direct type of G.Y. but i dont think is the easiest because introduces a few elements with which i am not very familiar.For example when visualizing A inside the heart are we supposed to viz it as facing outside or is it facing us?
I think this is a very imp. point because rinpoche said at one point that whenever we visualize things facing us we create duality-us and the viz.
And this being the essence of all G.Y probably the answer is that visualization is facing outward.And i encounter a problem there because i have to reverse it in my mind ,which i find quite difficult to do.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sönam » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:48 am

alpha wrote:I have a question about GY. of white A -about the very short version.
Are we supposed to let go of visualization when it is said that we rest in clarity?


that's what Rinpoché explicitely said saturday ...

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Andrew108 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:52 am

Hi there,
The visualization is not held onto - just relax into it's presence. The White A faces outwards from the center of the body. If the white A represents your true nature (sound, light, rays) then resting in the presence of your true nature is clarity. White A represents the guru and one is experiencing the transmission again when one does the practice. You have had the transmission I take it?
Essentially if you are thinking and thinking you have tension. The less tension you have then the better it goes. So relax into it without thinking too much. It's about presence in a relaxed way - you don't force it. And you remind yourself of this presence in all activities during the day and night. So you can do this guru yoga anytime. It is said by ChNN that doing this Guru Yoga at the time of death is very important too. So it's the best practice to get used to. In many ways it is THE practice - all other practices hang onto it.
IF you have a problem with the Tibetan syllable you can visualize a white A in latin script (English A) and in this way you have no problems with reversing or this that and the other as it looks the same from either way.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alpha » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:33 am

Andrew108 wrote:Hi there,
The visualization is not held onto - just relax into it's presence. The White A faces outwards from the center of the body. If the white A represents your true nature (sound, light, rays) then resting in the presence of your true nature is clarity. White A represents the guru and one is experiencing the transmission again when one does the practice. You have had the transmission I take it?


Hi Andrew.

The first part of your message makes sense.

But i have a problem with a letter symbolizing something else.
How do you jump from the letter A to being a symbol for sound light and rays.Are we supposed to think that while visualizing?
I cannot cross that bridge yet.How do you jump from A to A being your true nature?.How can i impregnate the A with something i am not familiar with and i dont know it yet?
Or is it that by just doing the visualization devoid of any content and resting in it i will be able to cross that bridge and eventually and spontaneously A will become the symbol of my true nature ?

I have difficulties understanding how a letter is the symbol of not something i do know -like a flower ,a stone ,a person -but of something which i dont know and i am not familiar with.
AOM
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:28 pm

IMHO it is a very important point to realize GY white A is really just a finger pointing to clarity not clarity itself.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby booker » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:25 pm

@Alpha did you try those three methods for recognising rigpa described in the book "Guru Yoga" by ChNNR?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Andrew108 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:37 pm

@Alpha -
alpha wrote:But i have a problem with a letter symbolizing something else.


It's not a real letter. It's empty of any true existence. It isn't really white.
The GY is about the transmission. If you didn't really understand or get the transmission then there are many ways to get it by practicing yourself.You can practice various semdzins esp using syllable phet. But I think these are questions you can ask ChNN or post the question on Norbunet asking which practices replicate the 'shock' of transmission.
Definitely read the book on GY.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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