Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sally Gross » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:53 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:Best reception I've had so far.

I hope there is a document to download of the Invocation of Santabadhra.


Apart from the text (without translation), which is available for download from the "files" link on the webcast page, there is a restricted MP3 Audio CD and booklet. The booklet gives the text of the invocation in Tibetan, the transliteration, and a translation into English.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sally Gross » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:55 pm

Totoro wrote:Is the webcast going smoothly for everyone?


"Yes, thus far ... touch wood", she said, scratching her head.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:03 pm

deepbluehum wrote:
CrawfordHollow wrote:I am posting here as a new member of the DC. I've been watching the webcasts, getting the lungs, got my membership number, the tun book, Precious Vase, and the mp3s of Tun and Ganapujua. I am finding that it is difficult to jump into these practices that I am getting transmission for. Each resource seems to give only a patial piece of the puzzle. I am working my way through the short tun, I was hoping someone could PM with some details of the purification of the five elements potion of the practice. Maybe I'm making it too complicatied, but the tun book seems like you really need prior knowledge of the practices and the mp3s honestly haven't been much of a help.

Thanks, Troy


You need the Short Tun booklet.

Yup. The tun book is really just a collection of practice texts, it doesn't explain anything. So if you don't know anything about those practices beforehand, it'll be of little help to you. Perhaps this is something that should be made clearer in the description of the book in the webstores. I didn't get this book till I more or less already knew how to do the tuns and ganapujas.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sally Gross » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:15 pm

CrawfordHollow wrote:I am posting here as a new member of the DC. I've been watching the webcasts, getting the lungs, got my membership number, the tun book, Precious Vase, and the mp3s of Tun and Ganapujua. I am finding that it is difficult to jump into these practices that I am getting transmission for. Each resource seems to give only a patial piece of the puzzle. I am working my way through the short tun, I was hoping someone could PM with some details of the purification of the five elements potion of the practice. Maybe I'm making it too complicatied, but the tun book seems like you really need prior knowledge of the practices and the mp3s honestly haven't been much of a help.

Thanks, Troy


There is a restricted Shang Shung book called Concise Experiential Instructions on the Short Thun as a Daily Practice for the Dzogchen Community (Lostawa Series 168E) which I am finding helpful. For correlations of colours, elements and mantras, I searched for material on Google and compiled a table for myself. I'll try to send it to you by way of PM.

Like you, I am a newcomer to Dzogchen, and have also found that it is like putting a puzzle together. Increasingly, I am coming to feel that this is perhaps an important part of the process: it drives one to investigate and to synthesise(integrate) what one learns. It seems to get to a point when it all clicks -- a little like learning a new language, when one is often overwhelmed by the many rules of syntax and morphology, not to mention the dictionary-meaning of words, one has to keep in mind and apply early on. It is confusing at the beginning; but a point comes when one finds that rules of grammar and the like fade into the background and one is actually using the language, it has somehow all come together, even if the level of use is basic at the outset. It is no longer confusing and it grows from there. In a sense, this is a fruit of the earlier process of struggling to fit different pieces of the linguistic puzzle together. I've a long, long way to go, and much remains which I still find confusing; but y experience is that one reaches a threshold marked by having built up a basic sense of the way it all hangs together, a framework into which new knowledge can be integrated easily and holistically. Trust the process!
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90
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Re: Dzogchen Teaching is Free From Limitations

Postby oldbob » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:
Ogyen wrote:Attended my first ChNNR webcast for the Los Angeles Retreat- "Kunzang Monlam" Introduction to Ati Guru Yoga and tridlung of Short Thun.

Wow. Just wow. Like. Wow.

:group:


It's hard to follow another teacher after hearing him.


Indeed


It is hard to have a partiality towards anything after hearing him.

:namaste: :heart:
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Re: Dzogchen Teaching is Free From Limitations

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:41 pm

Today ChNN gave a very good practical explanation about Guru Yoga, among other things.
I hope you had the opportunity to attend. :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby CrawfordHollow » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Thank you all for your replies. I definately need the Guru Yoga Book to fill in some gaps but I've got a working base. It's good to know that there's folks out there willing to lend a hand.

Thanks again,
Troy
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Blue Garuda » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:28 pm

Advice to myself:

I'm used to intellectualising practices from studying Vajrayana and I've deliberately not investigated too much here when it comes to the Dzogchen practices, and I need to remember to examine that which is most useful to a newcomer.

I've restricted myself to the Tun and Ganapuja book, the Guruyoga book and the Mantras book and CD. I also downloaded the Song of the Vajra mp3 and the Garab Dorje pdf files form the webcast site.

Each webcast will add to the choice of techniques at my disposal, but I need to be careful to make the Dzogchen practice my core, and to use the others only when they are useful. A background in Vajrayana makes it easier, IMHO, to learn the mudras etc. but I must be careful not to fixate on such things.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:11 am

CrawfordHollow wrote:Thank you all for your replies. I definately need the Guru Yoga Book to fill in some gaps but I've got a working base. It's good to know that there's folks out there willing to lend a hand.

Thanks again,
Troy

Did you have the opportunity to attend today's first session of teachings? ChNN gave a rather precise practical explanation of the practice of Guru Yoga (with the recitation of A 6 times). If you missed it, feel free to PM me.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhasa » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:21 am

I decided today with each session, to do Guru Yoga at the beginning and then stay in Guru Yoga for as long as I could while Rinpoche was speaking. His voice puts me in a thought-free state anyway, might as well close my eyes and see how deep it goes. I just realized that here he is broadcasting that state while he's speaking and I'm trying to intellectually follow what he's saying, and missing the point. And missing the opportunity to be in that state with him. What happens if we follow the sound of Rinpoche's voice back to it's source?
We need a 'doh' smilie. :D
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby bjf77 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:23 am

I feel extremely fortunate to be able to be out here in Pasadena and attending the retreat in person. I am speechless. Each day the teaching gets better and better, more to the heart and essence, I am amazed at the clarity and directness of the information and instruction. Every time a question arises for me, Rinpoche answers it almost immediately. I have talked to a few others that are here attending as well and I am not alone in this experience. I appreciate all those that have helped further my understanding and who led me to the contact with ChNN. The experience has been....amazing....wow. If you have the opportunity and possibility to attend a retreat in person and meet ChNN....take it!

Just had to share with you all the experience. I have been quite a quiet member of this board. Lurking, reading, and trying to understand in the background, so many might not know me...but I feel I know some of you through your posts and can't thank you enough for them and your practice, efforts, energy, etc.... I will try to be a more active participant here.

:namaste:
B
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby bjf77 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:09 am

With all that I said before, in my previous post....I have a sort of bone to pick.
Before I say anything though let me preface it with this:
ChNN is amazing!! His teaching is amazing (method and introduction).

The community though, in my very weak and humble opinion, could use some work. I came out here to Pasadena, CA, from SLC, UT (there are NO other D.C. members in SLC that I know of), alone for this retreat...and I guess I shouldn't complain, because I did come out to meet ChNN and receive teachings in person. However, the community has been quite oddly 'distant' overall. People have been kind, polite, and genuinely 'nice', but have remained at a distance from me (and I assume from other loners at this event). I have remained a loner the entire time at this retreat. I have attempted several times to try to start conversations to get to know people and start to 'experience' the Dzogchen Community. I have been a member since 2008 and this is the first time I have had the chance to interact and relate with other members of the community in person. I don't feel like I am socially inadequate or awkward. Maybe a bit shy at times, but I tend to be able to make 'friends' fairly easily and am able to carry a conversation. I feel like I somehow, somewhere, missed some 'boat' though. The longest conversation I had was about 2 minutes and everybody seemed interested in ending our little chat as quickly as possible. It just struck me as odd.

Perhaps, the issue is one of expectation that should be dropped....A close friend of mine, I talked to via the internet tonight about this topic told me, "it's a great time to experience working with your own condition"...TRUE! But I can't help but feeling a bit disappointed. This is suppose to be a community, it's very name is such, the Dzogchen Community. In my opinion, it doesn't feel much like a community, but more of a 'fend for yourself' 'feel/mentality'. Perhaps it's just the mixture of people at this particular area/retreat? I don't want this post to come across as harsh....I love ChNN, the teaching, and the Community (at least with my limited digital contact) and was hoping that the experience would be reciprocal from the community. Apparently, this is an issue that exists in my mind as it is a judgement, a part of dualistic vision, and should be dropped.

So, what am I going to do, besides be aware of the judgement, emotion etc... and let it self liberate? Well, if I am ever fortunate enough to be at a D.C. event again, retreat, teachings, practice, etc.... I will make it a point to find that loner or 'newb' and welcome him/her and try to help them get their bearings, answer questions, get to know them, even invite them out for a lunch or dinner (if appropriate for the situation) and be as much like a 'community' member as possible, because I don't want another to have the experience that I have had with something that is so dear to me. I would challenge all D.C. members to do the same.

Much Love, Light, and Bows....
B
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby dakini_boi » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:40 am

CrawfordHollow wrote:Thank you all for your replies. I definately need the Guru Yoga Book to fill in some gaps but I've got a working base. It's good to know that there's folks out there willing to lend a hand.

Thanks again,
Troy


I second the recommendation for Concise Experiential Instructions on the Short Thun.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherlock » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:12 am

bjf77, in all likelihood, most other people there are probably not Community "regulars" based on my own experience. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want a closer feel then a regular group of practitioners who meet up is better for that.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Jacob » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:26 am

bjf77 I had the same experience. I was quiet disapointed, I was trying to get some contact, start conversation etc. but people didn't seem to be interested.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:10 am

I had a very positive experience - in fact I'm still having it. :)

Shortly after sending off my forms to join, and again later on, I was invited to Ganapujas by a group a couple of hours drive away.

Sadly, there's too much going on in life and death at the moment to travel far, which is why the webcasts, DW and downloads have been a real boon.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:53 pm

Jacob wrote:bjf77 I had the same experience. I was quiet disapointed, I was trying to get some contact, start conversation etc. but people didn't seem to be interested.

It's their loss, don't worry. :lol:
Maybe next time you find people more open to start new friendships, who knows?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby deepbluehum » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:21 pm

bjf77 wrote:With all that I said before, in my previous post....I have a sort of bone to pick.
Before I say anything though let me preface it with this:
ChNN is amazing!! His teaching is amazing (method and introduction).

The community though, in my very weak and humble opinion, could use some work. I came out here to Pasadena, CA, from SLC, UT (there are NO other D.C. members in SLC that I know of), alone for this retreat...and I guess I shouldn't complain, because I did come out to meet ChNN and receive teachings in person. However, the community has been quite oddly 'distant' overall. People have been kind, polite, and genuinely 'nice', but have remained at a distance from me (and I assume from other loners at this event). I have remained a loner the entire time at this retreat. I have attempted several times to try to start conversations to get to know people and start to 'experience' the Dzogchen Community. I have been a member since 2008 and this is the first time I have had the chance to interact and relate with other members of the community in person. I don't feel like I am socially inadequate or awkward. Maybe a bit shy at times, but I tend to be able to make 'friends' fairly easily and am able to carry a conversation. I feel like I somehow, somewhere, missed some 'boat' though. The longest conversation I had was about 2 minutes and everybody seemed interested in ending our little chat as quickly as possible. It just struck me as odd.

Perhaps, the issue is one of expectation that should be dropped....A close friend of mine, I talked to via the internet tonight about this topic told me, "it's a great time to experience working with your own condition"...TRUE! But I can't help but feeling a bit disappointed. This is suppose to be a community, it's very name is such, the Dzogchen Community. In my opinion, it doesn't feel much like a community, but more of a 'fend for yourself' 'feel/mentality'. Perhaps it's just the mixture of people at this particular area/retreat? I don't want this post to come across as harsh....I love ChNN, the teaching, and the Community (at least with my limited digital contact) and was hoping that the experience would be reciprocal from the community. Apparently, this is an issue that exists in my mind as it is a judgement, a part of dualistic vision, and should be dropped.

So, what am I going to do, besides be aware of the judgement, emotion etc... and let it self liberate? Well, if I am ever fortunate enough to be at a D.C. event again, retreat, teachings, practice, etc.... I will make it a point to find that loner or 'newb' and welcome him/her and try to help them get their bearings, answer questions, get to know them, even invite them out for a lunch or dinner (if appropriate for the situation) and be as much like a 'community' member as possible, because I don't want another to have the experience that I have had with something that is so dear to me. I would challenge all D.C. members to do the same.

Much Love, Light, and Bows....
B


It's partly your feeling of being a novice and wanting someone to hold your hand. It's understandable. We should help each other. Rinpoche is always saying we need to collaborate even to the point of supporting each other in retreats.

Having said that, I have been tight with different tight knit dharma groups for a long time. Overall, I don't like it. I've come to the point where I prefer to go it on my own. I am very thankful for ChNN's distant approach. The essence of the teaching, guru yoga and direct introduction is very brief and you get liberated with no ceremonies, donations, years and years of ngondros, group trips, endless socializing and a teacher that's always telling you what to do. I'm always a bit peeved by masters who spend far more time chatting and bossing people around their mundane matters than anything else in the endless job of suckup to get money for centers, not to mention intertwining themselves in your personal life, and creating tensions in relationships. There is a big problem of manipulation by masters who trade on their knowledge of methods. If you don't know any better, you might think it's worth everything you have to experience the heights of tantric practice. Then a master like ChNN comes along and just hands it over for nothing. You're liberated; now, go home.

You have to know these traditional Tibetan Buddhist masters are very clever, patient and ingenious in their methods of sucking you in. I should mention it's partly a cultural thing, where students follow masters sometimes from a young age and become like their children. Some traditional masters keep this attitude of father to the students. I don't think this translates well in the West. I saw one master get his ass handed to him for being a sexist on several occasions by women after he counseled them on cooking and having women only do the food service work at the center. Of course, he's only doing what he knows from Tibet, but he got it into his head that Westerers need Asian culture along with Dharma instructions. Screw that.

As you can see. Things can get very complicated. It can be better to have a simple American attitude of keep to yourself. ChNN dovetails very well with what we have here. I used to take it to heart that ChNN is mainly for Westerners and is not really "Tibetan" style. I've come to realize that Western style is more conducive to dharma than Asian culture. We have a spirit of independence and that is what the Muni wanted originally, as in the Rhino Sutta. Self-liberate your hurt feelings. Liberation is like growing up. Slowly, this generates amazing good karma and you will make all the right connections without trying, particularly with the dakinis, who make all the hurt go away.
Last edited by deepbluehum on Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Hi B:

You should not expect much at a short retreat. However, if you can, find Joe Evans.

He is here on Dwheel. He is there in Pasadena.

M


bjf77 wrote:With all that I said before, in my previous post....I have a sort of bone to pick.
Before I say anything though let me preface it with this:
ChNN is amazing!! His teaching is amazing (method and introduction).

The community though, in my very weak and humble opinion, could use some work. I came out here to Pasadena, CA, from SLC, UT (there are NO other D.C. members in SLC that I know of), alone for this retreat...and I guess I shouldn't complain, because I did come out to meet ChNN and receive teachings in person. However, the community has been quite oddly 'distant' overall. People have been kind, polite, and genuinely 'nice', but have remained at a distance from me (and I assume from other loners at this event). I have remained a loner the entire time at this retreat. I have attempted several times to try to start conversations to get to know people and start to 'experience' the Dzogchen Community. I have been a member since 2008 and this is the first time I have had the chance to interact and relate with other members of the community in person. I don't feel like I am socially inadequate or awkward. Maybe a bit shy at times, but I tend to be able to make 'friends' fairly easily and am able to carry a conversation. I feel like I somehow, somewhere, missed some 'boat' though. The longest conversation I had was about 2 minutes and everybody seemed interested in ending our little chat as quickly as possible. It just struck me as odd.

Perhaps, the issue is one of expectation that should be dropped....A close friend of mine, I talked to via the internet tonight about this topic told me, "it's a great time to experience working with your own condition"...TRUE! But I can't help but feeling a bit disappointed. This is suppose to be a community, it's very name is such, the Dzogchen Community. In my opinion, it doesn't feel much like a community, but more of a 'fend for yourself' 'feel/mentality'. Perhaps it's just the mixture of people at this particular area/retreat? I don't want this post to come across as harsh....I love ChNN, the teaching, and the Community (at least with my limited digital contact) and was hoping that the experience would be reciprocal from the community. Apparently, this is an issue that exists in my mind as it is a judgement, a part of dualistic vision, and should be dropped.

So, what am I going to do, besides be aware of the judgement, emotion etc... and let it self liberate? Well, if I am ever fortunate enough to be at a D.C. event again, retreat, teachings, practice, etc.... I will make it a point to find that loner or 'newb' and welcome him/her and try to help them get their bearings, answer questions, get to know them, even invite them out for a lunch or dinner (if appropriate for the situation) and be as much like a 'community' member as possible, because I don't want another to have the experience that I have had with something that is so dear to me. I would challenge all D.C. members to do the same.

Much Love, Light, and Bows....
B
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby bjf77 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:47 pm

Thanks all for your replies. Expectations and emotions have gone their way. It's great to be here and have this experience.

DeepBlueHum: I'm not looking to have my hand held. I do appreciate your perspective, but what you described wasn't what I was hoping for. I 'enjoy' ChNN approach as well.

Thanks all... now back to it.
B
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