Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby mint » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:18 pm

padma norbu wrote:I kind of wish Namkhai Norbu gave everyone a plan of action so that I would know exactly what I should do rather than being like, "it is up to me, I can do whatever I want" and then ordering a bunch of restricted books at $60 a pop on stuff which ends up being not appropriate for me since I don't have the proper teaching so it mostly collects dust on the bookshelf. There's just no way to tell what these books are from the brief descriptions to someone who doesn't already know. For example, I bought Longde Teachings because I thought it may be one of the more important books of the Longde series. It gives instruction with mantras I don't know, heruka, Upadesha teachings of Four Das, etc. Something I would never try to improvise on my own, so it is useless for me. Most of the restricted books I have bought are like this. A Dzogchen restricted-text lending library would be cool for us poor folk.

The books I reference the most of Namkhai Norbu's are all non-restricted... how about the rest of you?


I just ordered my first set of restricted books. All of them were recommended by senior Dzogchen practitioners here on the board. As I'm just getting started, these first few should be pretty solid, I think. However, I have no idea what I'm getting since, as you say, the description of the books are terribly inadequate - even the non-restricted items. I guess Amazon.com has spoiled me! It's nice to know the dimensions, page count, full description, etc. when buying a book. It's also nice to know, as you say, it's usefulness beyond a single read. [Personally, I see the restricted texts as largely another business scheme, though I imagine it can't be very profitable considering its niche market.]

As for Namkhai Norbu providing a plan of action, I feel like this about most of Buddhism, really. However, I'm used to being told what to do by a bishop or priest or by Canon Law. Chogyam Trungpa would often tell his students that there was no way he could provide a plan of action since every student's experience will and must be different. To coordinate a plan of action would be to force and manufacture what is not there. Maybe Namkhai Norbu would agree.
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby Paul » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:26 pm

padma norbu wrote:I kind of wish Namkhai Norbu gave everyone a plan of action so that I would know exactly what I should do rather than being like, "it is up to me, I can do whatever I want" and then ordering a bunch of restricted books at $60 a pop on stuff which ends up being not appropriate for me since I don't have the proper teaching so it mostly collects dust on the bookshelf.


Personally, I think that The Practice of Day and Night is the perfect book for describing a dzogchen plan of (non)action. It could guide someone for the rest of their life.
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"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:07 pm

mint wrote:As for Namkhai Norbu providing a plan of action, I feel like this about most of Buddhism, really.


If you want a more structured approach, try SMS - that's what it, or at the very least the Base part of it, is here for. You've got some solid theory to usher you in, you've got more than some guided practice that's going to give you concrete experiences which ought to help you recognize rigpa (for those of us who don't get it straightaway).
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:16 pm

mint wrote: [Personally, I see the restricted texts as largely another business scheme, though I imagine it can't be very profitable considering its niche market.]



Dzogchen Community has never made a real profit in a material sense. In fact, the person who supports it financially the most is ChNN.

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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:32 pm

mint wrote:
[Personally, I see the restricted texts as largely another business scheme, though I imagine it can't be very profitable considering its niche market.]



I'm sure this is just another manifestation of your process of working through your neuroses and nagging doubts... And I also know that in this world we've all seen so many religious shams over the of our lifetimes that it could be hard not to second-guess our lamas and ourselves, worrying we too unwittingly happened into one, so I don't intend this to be a lecture, but for something to consider that may show you a different perspective:

Over the course of a great master's life, he will give many hundreds of teachings. If they are not transcribed and preserved for posterity, then eventually only a vague and flawed memory of them will remain in the minds of all who attended them except those rare ones with perfect recall. Also consider those who were unable to attend certain teachings. Now imagine how different our process of walking the path would be if we couldn't access transcriptions of these teachings to study, then mull over, then meditate on, and then return to later with greater understanding, finding a new depth of meaning in them each time we revisit them? Lastly, it's no secret that printing the text and front and back covers of these books costs money. So of course they have to charge something for them.

Finally, considering the untold hours that vajra brothers and sisters whom we've never met have poured into transcribing the teachings from audio, proofreading and editing the transcriptions, designing the cover art, making trips to the printers, stocking and running the DC bookstores - not to mention Rinpoche giving his permission for all this to even happen - maybe the conclusion on our part which is truly warranted is our gratitude to these people.
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby mint » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:28 am

Pero wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Is this all quite detailed in the Contemplation book with the bookmark featuring the letter A?
This one:
http://www.shangshungstore.org/images/p ... ation.jpeg

No, this book is basically about 4 Yogas of Semde.


Which book is it then?
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby mint » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:39 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
I'm sure this is just another manifestation of your process of working through your neuroses and nagging doubts... And I also know that in this world we've all seen so many religious shams over the of our lifetimes


Yes. It's just the result of being taken advantage of by clever marketing and niche interest groups for all of my adult life. Plus, the cynic in me couldn't resist building upon padma norbu's comment regarding the high price of the restricted texts. Mea culpa.

Finally, considering the untold hours that vajra brothers and sisters whom we've never met have poured into transcribing the teachings from audio, proofreading and editing the transcriptions, designing the cover art, making trips to the printers, stocking and running the DC bookstores - not to mention Rinpoche giving his permission for all this to even happen - maybe the conclusion on our part which is truly warranted is our gratitude to these people.


Indeed. :thumbsup:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:05 am

12/8

Rinpoche's Birthday

The Practice of Mandarava Webcast with Choegyal Namkhai Norbu

Thursday, 12/8, 8am
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby padma norbu » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:11 pm

mint wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
I'm sure this is just another manifestation of your process of working through your neuroses and nagging doubts... And I also know that in this world we've all seen so many religious shams over the of our lifetimes


Yes. It's just the result of being taken advantage of by clever marketing and niche interest groups for all of my adult life. Plus, the cynic in me couldn't resist building upon padma norbu's comment regarding the high price of the restricted texts. Mea culpa.

Finally, considering the untold hours that vajra brothers and sisters whom we've never met have poured into transcribing the teachings from audio, proofreading and editing the transcriptions, designing the cover art, making trips to the printers, stocking and running the DC bookstores - not to mention Rinpoche giving his permission for all this to even happen - maybe the conclusion on our part which is truly warranted is our gratitude to these people.


Indeed. :thumbsup:


I did not mean that the price was high. I certainly didn't mean the price was too high!I simply said I'd spend $60 at a time, but that's because I'd order 3 or 4 books at a time + shipping charges.

I think the most I paid for one book was actually 2 editions of 1 book: I bought a used copy of The Precious Vase for $30 or something and then a few months later a new, revised version came out, so I bought that, too. I really don't know what the difference is. I started reading the first one and got a whole lot of nothing out of it due to my ignorance, then when the new one came, I started reading that and it wasn't any different as far as I got, anyway. I wonder which one is better. You'd think the newest version is "better," but I've heard from other students that some of the older revisions have some things that are not in the revisions. Whether revisions are done for clarity or because the practices change, I am not sure.

I've got to go do some Tara practice now. I am feeling bad about my general place in the dharma again... :thinking:
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby mint » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:09 pm

padma norbu wrote:I did not mean that the price was high. I certainly didn't mean the price was too high!I simply said I'd spend $60 at a time, but that's because I'd order 3 or 4 books at a time + shipping charges.


My misunderstanding. Yet I agree. I just spent $150+ on 6 items. The shipping is the most outrageous.

Your comments about "The Precious Vase" make me particularly nervous since that is one of the books I was recommended. If you think you're ignorant, I'm utterly hopeless. I'm so ignorant that I make the hell beings look like saints. I'm so ignorant I try to one-up somebody on how ignorant I am.

I've got to go do some Tara practice now. I am feeling bad about my general place in the dharma again... :thinking:


You're not the only one! At least you're not nearly as sensationalistic and provocative as my latest posts have shamefully been.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby padma norbu » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:11 pm

I was a little worried you may be following my example. I've been pretty sensationalistic and provocative in the past here... I think if you are being honest with your feelings and getting them out there to get back some honest feedback, then you are following the Buddha's advice and being honest with yourself, using your reasoning ability, not just believing something because someone says so. Obviously, you're not just trying to cause trouble; that would be different.

Have no fear on the Precious Vase. Last time I cracked either edition was years ago. Maybe it would make more sense now, I don't know. I am behind in my reading and have a few books to get to first. If you got any of the Longsal books, let me know what you think. I wanted to get them before they sold out, but it seemed like there was going to be an endless amount of volumes, so I just didn't even start. So many teachings and books... I thought it was supposed to be simple. 3 words that strike at the vital point. Main point. I'm trying to keep it simple, anyway. All the different ideas in various Buddhist lineages make it hard, though. So many concepts to get lost in...
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby Pero » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:10 pm

mint wrote:
Pero wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Is this all quite detailed in the Contemplation book with the bookmark featuring the letter A?
This one:
http://www.shangshungstore.org/images/p ... ation.jpeg

No, this book is basically about 4 Yogas of Semde.


Which book is it then?

Precious Vase, Teachings on Lojongs Rushens and Semdzins, 21 Semdzins of Dzogchen Upadesha.

padma norbu wrote:If you got any of the Longsal books, let me know what you think. I wanted to get them before they sold out, but it seemed like there was going to be an endless amount of volumes, so I just didn't even start. So many teachings and books...

Just FYI, Longsal volumes are now considered restricted to people who either received the respective teachings or received the Longsal root initiation.

I thought it was supposed to be simple.

Oh it is. The problem is it's too simple.
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby Paul » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:34 pm

Pero wrote:
padma norbu wrote:If you got any of the Longsal books, let me know what you think. I wanted to get them before they sold out, but it seemed like there was going to be an endless amount of volumes, so I just didn't even start. So many teachings and books...

Just FYI, Longsal volumes are now considered restricted to people who either received the respective teachings or received the Longsal root initiation.


When did that change happen?
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Is receiving transmission via webcast a farce?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:37 pm

Paul wrote:
Pero wrote:
padma norbu wrote:If you got any of the Longsal books, let me know what you think. I wanted to get them before they sold out, but it seemed like there was going to be an endless amount of volumes, so I just didn't even start. So many teachings and books...

Just FYI, Longsal volumes are now considered restricted to people who either received the respective teachings or received the Longsal root initiation.


When did that change happen?



recently.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:36 am

Paul wrote:When did that change happen?


I remember being told similar in regards to the longsal books many years ago, I guess they are putting it in writing now.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby padma norbu » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:13 am

Why? Too few books to go around? Jim Valby told me they were some of the most precious teachings ever (or something like that), so kinda sad... Maybe I got the root initiation? I was at the NY retreat when he introduced the books and he gave so many lungs I couldn't keep track of them all. That was only 3 years ago or something and he was offering them for sale, I don't think restricted to anybody... but, he may have said, "if you have Longsal initiation, you can get these books..." I don't remember. I guess it's good I didn't get any of them, though, because this suggests to me that maybe it would just go right over my head, as I feared.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:04 pm

padma norbu wrote:Why? Too few books to go around? Jim Valby told me they were some of the most precious teachings ever (or something like that), so kinda sad...

They are certainly very precious, but even before this restriction transmission was required to practice what is in the books. As for why the change (or perhaps it was always so, we just weren't aware of it...), you'd have to ask Rinpoche.

Maybe I got the root initiation?

I'm afraid not. Rinpoche gave this initiation 6 times. 4 times in Venezuela, once in Argentina and once in Italy.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Speaking of Santi Maha Sangha and The Precious Vase,
[...]
rather?
Edit (DN): the teachings you referred in your post are restricted, so it's better not to discuss them publicly.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:40 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Speaking of Santi Maha Sangha and The Precious Vase,[...] rather?
Edit (DN): As above. Please follow the advice Namdrol gave you. :anjali:


Not an appropriate topic of discussion. If you have specific questions about topics in this book or others, best to write to Jim Valby or another SMS instructor. I am not one of these.
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Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:43 pm

Ah I see, thanks Namdrol.
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