Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:57 pm

...
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:00 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!



Remind me not to answer your questions either.

N



You are the one who specifically asked bro.

Give me another chance. :bow:
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
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Re: Elements

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:02 pm

Enochian wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
Enochian wrote:To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!
Whatever dude! It's your psychological well-being, you can do anything you want with it. You might actually look quite fetching in a (extremely) long-sleeved white jacket.
:namaste:



Why would I need to learn all sorts of visulazations and so forth for a NATURAL, although scary, phenomenon?

Everyone projects every night.

You wouldn't. Night practice visualizations are pretty simple. But having a teacher is crucial to practice Vajrayana and Dzogchen. Don't you have a teacher?
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Re: Elements

Postby Malcolm » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:08 pm

Enochian wrote:

You are the one who specifically asked bro.

:


I didn't ask you to be disrespectful about things which, according to your own admission, you know little.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Elements

Postby username » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:09 pm

Vajrayana or Dzogchen is not missionary and one connects with them due to past karma and/or free will. Direct transmissions' various methods might be conditioned in execution but their fruit is not. Other waste of human time methods do not, in comparison, bear fruit anything like vajrayana never mind the ultimate fruit like the lineage's direct transmission.
Last edited by username on Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:09 pm

....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:10 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:

You are the one who specifically asked bro.

:


I didn't ask you to be disrespectful about things which, according to your own admission, you know little.

N



I apologize. Greg gets on my nerves. Honestly.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
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Re: Elements

Postby Malcolm » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:16 pm

Enochian wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:

You are the one who specifically asked bro.

:


I didn't ask you to be disrespectful about things which, according to your own admission, you know little.

N



I apologize. Greg gets on my nerves. Honestly.


forgiven.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:17 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:But having a teacher is crucial to practice Vajrayana and Dzogchen.


I NEVER claimed to practice Vajrayana or Dzogchen.

Read my sig. I've had the same one for several days.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
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Re: Elements

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:24 pm

Enochian wrote:I apologize. Greg gets on my nerves. Honestly.
Firstly, it seems strange to me that people caring about your psychological well being would be reason for them to get on your nerves. Secondly, do not project the source of your shortcomings onto me. There is only one person responsible for who and what you are: YOU!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Elements

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:36 pm

If you don't practice Vajrayana or Dzogchen, you shouldn't speak about them with such certainty then, friend. Sometimes I don't read the threads as closely as I should and answer a specific post within them. :smile:

Listen, I don't want you to think I'm hostile towards you. I even have a good feeling about you, a warm sympathy. Don't ask me why, because fellows like you usually get on my nerves, but you haven't. A bit strange, since I can have a temper (my bad, I know).

When I write you I don't want you to take me in the wrong way. I believe others here aren't being hostile either. I guess we all have just seen or heard about enough stories of people going nuts because they decided to approach Vajrayana without the due cations. This is serious stuff you know? It may mess you up in a way that your life goes down the drain in no time. For real. So we aren't being hysterical or anything. We just don't want you or anyone else to end up in an asylum.
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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:53 pm

.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Elements

Postby gnegirl » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:59 pm

Enochian wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:enough stories of people going nuts because they decided to approach Vajrayana without the due cations. This is serious stuff you know?



I am NOT approaching Vajrayana. :crying:

My point is that I was working with chakras and OBE WAY BEFORE I EVEN HEARD OF "COMPLETION STAGE"

My second point is that I realized the nature of the mind WAY BEFORE I EVEN HEARD OF VAJRAYANA OR DZOGCHEN



you think so? this doesn't mean you would not benefit from one-on-one with a qualified instructor. you seem rather interested in dzogpa chenpo and the vajrayana in particular...so why not seek someone out? What could it hurt?
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Elements

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:06 pm

......
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby ngodrup » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:22 pm

OBE work doesn't sound classically Indian.
It sound typically New Age.

Now, if you could figure out these things without a teacher, you must be enlightened!
If any of us could figure it out, we'd be enlightened already-- long before Buddha
Shakyamuni appeared. Not need for him. Let's all bow to the superior wisdom
of Enochian.

No need for a Buddhist Dharma Wheel website, let's all go to Enochian.net.

Don't you think? ;)
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Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:32 pm

.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:39 pm

......
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:44 pm

That would be the less amazing, the OBE stuff I mean.
That is an experience that may happen totally by accident, like lucid dreaming.
The surprising part is: My second point is that I realized the nature of the mind WAY BEFORE I EVEN HEARD OF VAJRAYANA OR DZOGCHEN.
This is harder to believe. I think it's possible, but rare. Even so one needs a teacher afterwards, being the case. However, most who claim this simply think they got it while in fact they haven't. Not saying it's your case.
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Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:50 pm

.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby ngodrup » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:09 pm

i guess that means that getting married is undesirable,
there are vows to that too. Any relationship has rules.
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