Dzogchen for beginners

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Caoimhghín
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Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Caoimhghín »

If you could describe Dzogchen, from your perspective, and/or from others', in one forum post, how would you? (To someone who knows nothing about Dzogchen or Vajrayana/Tantrayana).

What links would you link said learner to? What resources would you suggest for them, in what way would you advocate, for them, the path that is described, in contemporary tongue, as "Dzogchen"?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Kris
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Kris »

Coëmgenu wrote:If you could describe Dzogchen, from your perspective, and/or from others', in one forum post, how would you? (To someone who knows nothing about Dzogchen or Vajrayana/Tantrayana).

What links would you link said learner to? What resources would you suggest for them, in what way would you advocate, for them, the path that is described, in contemporary tongue, as "Dzogchen"?
I would probably tell a person if they want to free from all confusion to tune into the webcast at the link below; and to attentively listen to the teachings.
http://webcast.dzogchen.net/
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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Manju
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Manju »

I once heard:

It`s the mind buying less and less into the idea that the thoughts that appear in the mind are an actual and true description of something that is happening out there in the real world that is separate from the experiencing mind.

The mind buying less and less into the belief, the non-reflected belief, that the thoughts that appear in the mind and the emotions about those thoughts that appear in the mind, are objective accounts or descriptions of real events that are happening in a real world somewhere separate and apart from that experiencing mind.

In other words the mind is more and more confident that whatever appears in it, to it, is mind.

:stirthepot:

Manju
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Malcolm »

Coëmgenu wrote:If you could describe Dzogchen, from your perspective, and/or from others', in one forum post, how would you? (To someone who knows nothing about Dzogchen or Vajrayana/Tantrayana).

What links would you link said learner to? What resources would you suggest for them, in what way would you advocate, for them, the path that is described, in contemporary tongue, as "Dzogchen"?
You as well try to describe sight to the blind.

Find a proper Dzogchen master, then follow their instructions.
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monktastic
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by monktastic »

Manju wrote:I once heard:

It`s the mind buying less and less into the idea that the thoughts that appear in the mind are an actual and true description of something that is happening out there in the real world that is separate from the experiencing mind.

The mind buying less and less into the belief, the non-reflected belief, that the thoughts that appear in the mind and the emotions about those thoughts that appear in the mind, are objective accounts or descriptions of real events that are happening in a real world somewhere separate and apart from that experiencing mind.

In other words the mind is more and more confident that whatever appears in it, to it, is mind.

:stirthepot:

Manju
Honest question: where did you hear this? And what is a "non-reflected belief"?

Either way, nice.
This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa
philji
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by philji »

Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:If you could describe Dzogchen, from your perspective, and/or from others', in one forum post, how would you? (To someone who knows nothing about Dzogchen or Vajrayana/Tantrayana).

What links would you link said learner to? What resources would you suggest for them, in what way would you advocate, for them, the path that is described, in contemporary tongue, as "Dzogchen"?
You as well try to describe sight to the blind.

Find a proper Dzogchen master, then follow their instructions.
:twothumbsup:
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Coëmgenu wrote:If you could describe Dzogchen, from your perspective, and/or from others', in one forum post, how would you? (To someone who knows nothing about Dzogchen or Vajrayana/Tantrayana).

What links would you link said learner to? What resources would you suggest for them, in what way would you advocate, for them, the path that is described, in contemporary tongue, as "Dzogchen"?
Tashi delek C,

If one does not know "nothing" about Dzogchen, then the start is doing the preliminaries.
We have specific preliminaries in Tantra and Dzogchen.

One can follow Dzogchen without doing Tantra, if the qualities are excellent, or the level of understanding is great. But the most Dzogchenpas have a Tantric background.

A knowledge about : Sutra and Tantra is also a must.

Understanding what is emptiness in Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen, is of eminent importance.

So starting at the beginning is, for many to do the preliminaries.
Purifying karma etc. is the start and will be present/ practiced on the whole Path.

Then looking for a Guru is also needed. One can learn from many Gurus, but one can only be the root Guru. After visiting a few Gurus, one can make the choice very careful.

So the student needs to develop certain qualities like devotion and compassion.
But the Master must also be qualified.

Guess to have Compassion that is the very base of starting in the Buddha Dharma.
Compassion for helping sentient beings, which results in Buddhahood.
Wisdom goes here hand in hand with Compassion.

For the rest you can find enough informations here aboard, to get a good impression about what Dzogchen is and what not.

Mutsug Marro
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by BuddhaFollower »

The unique teaching of Dzogchen Menngagde is the bardo of dharmata.

It is not present in any other Buddhist teaching.
Just recognize the conceptualizing mind.
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Caoimhghín »

A couple of responces seem to have misunderstood my intentions in asking about Dzogchen. Mostly because I was insufficiently clear about my reasons for asking. I don't plan on becoming a Dzogchen practitioner, or a Tantric or Vajrayana practitioner at this stage of my life. Similarly I'm not trying to "pry into" secret teachings or whatever. Secret teachings are how the potency of these specific teachings are preserved and I'm fine not knowing about them and respecting the secrecy that surrounds them.

Maybe I'll be moved to pursue that practice in the future, but at the moment, just consider me a good intentioned Buddha-enthusiast with academic inclinations. Dzogchen is just something that I know absolutely nothing about, and it seems to be everywhere on Dharma Wheel, it's obviously a very popular practice.

I'm just innocently wondering what all of the buzz is about, that's all. And it's always interesting and illuminating to hear people share perspectives on something that is very close to their hearts.

No ill intentions meant.
-Caoimhghín
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Manju
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Manju »

I'm just innocently wondering what all of the buzz is about, that's all.
And it's always interesting and illuminating to hear people share perspectives on something that is very close to their hearts. Coëmgenu
I started Buddhist practice in 2004.

Then, in 2006, I asked in a discussion forum, what Dzogchen is, what the buzz is all about.

I did not get a clear answer.
The forum admin frankly said that they do not know about Dzogchen practice.

It happened in 2010 that I stumbled into a seminar about http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... ipham-lamp

This text held me transfixed for years.
Mainly because I did not understand it, still suspect that it is a very poor translation, and several seminars/teachings on related topics did not help at all.

Fantastically (karmically....) the veils lifted at some point and I `got it`.

I am always deeply moved when I see questions like yours, Coëmgenu, because this is the starting point.
The starting point of something wonderful happening (unless one blocks it).

:popcorn:

Manju
Jeff H
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Jeff H »

Thank you Manju and Coëmgenu!
:bow:
Where now is my mind engaged? - Shantideva
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Manju wrote:
I'm just innocently wondering what all of the buzz is about, that's all.
And it's always interesting and illuminating to hear people share perspectives on something that is very close to their hearts. Coëmgenu
I started Buddhist practice in 2004.

Then, in 2006, I asked in a discussion forum, what Dzogchen is, what the buzz is all about.

I did not get a clear answer.
The forum admin frankly said that they do not know about Dzogchen practice.

It happened in 2010 that I stumbled into a seminar about http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... ipham-lamp

This text held me transfixed for years.
Mainly because I did not understand it, still suspect that it is a very poor translation, and several seminars/teachings on related topics did not help at all.

Fantastically (karmically....) the veils lifted at some point and I `got it`.

I am always deeply moved when I see questions like yours, Coëmgenu, because this is the starting point.
The starting point of something wonderful happening (unless one blocks it).

:popcorn:

Manju

Yeah, this is one of the best texts I've read, like gold...can't thank the person who pointed me at it enough;) It really is a kind of lamp.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
philji
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by philji »

Dzogchen is very much a popular subject to talk about.
Last edited by philji on Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
philji
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by philji »

Coëmgenu wrote:A couple of responces seem to have misunderstood my intentions in asking about Dzogchen. Mostly because I was insufficiently clear about my reasons for asking. I don't plan on becoming a Dzogchen practitioner, or a Tantric or Vajrayana practitioner at this stage of my life. Similarly I'm not trying to "pry into" secret teachings or whatever. Secret teachings are how the potency of these specific teachings are preserved and I'm fine not knowing about them and respecting the secrecy that surrounds them.

Maybe I'll be moved to pursue that practice in the future, but at the moment, just consider me a good intentioned Buddha-enthusiast with academic inclinations. Dzogchen is just something that I know absolutely nothing about, and it seems to be everywhere on Dharma Wheel, it's obviously a very popular practice.

I'm just innocently wondering what all of the buzz is about, that's all. And it's always interesting and illuminating to hear people share perspectives on something that is very close to their hearts.


No ill intentions meant.
-Caoimhghín

Dzogchen seems to be all over dharma wheel because Dzogchen is something we all like to talk about.
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Kaccāni
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Kaccāni »

Manju wrote: It happened in 2010 that I stumbled into a seminar about http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... ipham-lamp
I also find this text very enlightening. And for the notes, it really bridges to Advaita. But that would be another thread. Proably a polarized one *grin*.

Best
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by binocular »

Coëmgenu wrote:I'm just innocently wondering what all of the buzz is about, that's all.
It's interesting how the Dzogchenpas stand out at the forum. They don't even have to mention anything specific about Dzgochen, and yet have a recognizable air about them.
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by dzogchungpa »

binocular wrote:It's interesting how the Dzogchenpas stand out at the forum. They don't even have to mention anything specific about Dzgochen, and yet have a recognizable air about them.
The same is true for Dzogchungpas, I might add.



Regarding the OP, I found this book very helpful:

Image
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Caoimhghín »

dzogchungpa wrote:
binocular wrote:It's interesting how the Dzogchenpas stand out at the forum. They don't even have to mention anything specific about Dzgochen, and yet have a recognizable air about them.
The same is true for Dzogchungpas, I might add.



Regarding the OP, I found this book very helpful:

Image
I can't tell if this is a real book or a satire of "for Dummies" books!

Is this real? Lol
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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conebeckham
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by conebeckham »

Coëmgenu wrote:If you could describe Dzogchen, from your perspective, and/or from others', in one forum post, how would you? (To someone who knows nothing about Dzogchen or Vajrayana/Tantrayana).

What links would you link said learner to? What resources would you suggest for them, in what way would you advocate, for them, the path that is described, in contemporary tongue, as "Dzogchen"?
Dzogchen is both a path and a goal, or a "state." For all the talk about Dzogchen, it is not something that can be really completely comprehended by mind. It transcends concepts and words. Yet all concepts and words are primordially pure and perfect. Dzogpa Chenpo means "Great Perfection."

With regard to the path, you need to have a qualified guru who can introduce you to the Basic Nature, or the Ground. There is something also called the "Dynamic Nature of Awareness Empowerment." Then, after these, there are numerous practices one can engage in, depending on one's understanding and capacity, as well as one's circumstances. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's book, "The Crystal and the Way of Light," is an excellent written introduction to the path of Dzogchen, and how it relates to Sutra, and to the Tantric practices.

With regard to the goal, I cannot say anything. Again, there are a great many books by various authors which are very wonderful.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Dzogchen for beginners

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

conebeckham wrote: Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's book, "The Crystal and the Way of Light," is an excellent written introduction to the path of Dzogchen, and how it relates to Sutra, and to the Tantric practices.
That text by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is an excellent "primer" on Dzogchen. Totally agreed. Also, this video, which covers a lot of the same content:

phpBB [video]
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