Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby ZOOM » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:10 pm

Why do only very few Dzogchen practitioners attain rainbow body compared to the high number of Dzogchen practitioners in the world?

Is the answer that you have to be the member of an old Dzogchen lineage or that you have to be the student of an accomplished Dzogchen teacher?

No, because if that was the reason then every member of an old Dzogchen lineage or every student of an accomplished Dzogchen teacher would attain rainbow body.

But this is not the case.



The answer is obvious: Only very few Dzogchen practitioners will attain rainbow body
because only very few Dzogchen practitioners are mentally capable to achieve the Natural State of Mind!



The very few Dzogchen practitioners who achieve the Natural State of Mind and stay in it for longer periods of time will attain rainbow body!

All the others who don't, won't!





ZOOM
ZOOM
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Dragon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:13 pm

I am excited for ChNNR to achieve rainbow body. I know he will in this lifetime. Just have a feeling. :heart: :twothumbsup:
User avatar
Dragon
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby ZOOM » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:19 pm

Dragon wrote:I am excited for ChNNR to achieve rainbow body. I know he will in this lifetime. Just have a feeling. :heart: :twothumbsup:


I hope he will! :namaste:
ZOOM
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Mother's Lap » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:21 pm

Dragon wrote:I am excited for ChNNR to achieve rainbow body. I know he will in this lifetime. Just have a feeling. :heart: :twothumbsup:

Hopefully but considering the amount of people that were former students and his many thousands of vow breaking students (i.e. the majority of us) it's unlikely. A Nyala Pema Dundul Rinpoche situation is extremely uncommon and he had only 500 students under him which is a trifle compared to Norbu Rinpoche's.

very few Dzogchen practitioners are mentally capable to achieve the Natural State of Mind!

Not at all, see the above; every sentient being is capable of rigpa.
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Nighthawk » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:29 pm

I will attain rainbow body in Sukhavati (if there is such thing as Sukhavati and rainbow body that is)
Nighthawk
 
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Mother's Lap » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:30 pm

Nighthawk wrote:I will attain rainbow body in Sukhavati (if there is such thing as Sukhavati and rainbow body that is)

Respectfully speaking, you won't with that attitude any time soon.
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby ZOOM » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:34 pm

Emakirikiri wrote:Not at all, see the above; every sentient being is capable of rigpa.


Not at all.
The Natural State of Mind is the base of the mind of every sentient being.
This does not mean that every sentient being is mentally capable to achieve the Natural State of Mind.
ZOOM
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Nighthawk » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:34 pm

Emakirikiri wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:I will attain rainbow body in Sukhavati (if there is such thing as Sukhavati and rainbow body that is)

Respectfully speaking, you won't with that attitude any time soon.


We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
Nighthawk
 
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Kaore » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:36 pm

Why the natural state of mind would lead to rainbow body? Thank you.
User avatar
Kaore
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:30 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Dragon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:39 pm

Emakirikiri wrote:Hopefully but considering the amount of people that were former students and his many thousands of vow breaking students (i.e. the majority of us) it's unlikely.


Really? That's the deciding factor? He won't "Pass Go" or "Collect $200" because his students are being, well... human? Well that's a bit disheartening when you look at it that way. How about just passing the torch on to other teachers so he can get his well deserved rest and get that rainbow body, baby?? :tongue: :twothumbsup:
Last edited by Dragon on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dragon
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Mother's Lap » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:39 pm

ZOOM wrote:The Natural State of Mind is the base of the mind of every sentient being.
This does not mean that every sentient being is mentally capable to achieve the Natural State of Mind.

Subtle but important difference here, every being is fundamentally capable of rigpa simply because "The Natural State of Mind is the base of the mind of every sentient being", they just lack the secondary capacities as it were for its fruition and that isn't solely based on being "mentally capable".
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:42 pm

ZOOM wrote:Why do only very few Dzogchen practitioners attain rainbow body compared to the high number of Dzogchen practitioners in the world?


There are 21 types of capacties of practitioners. Only the best of the best attain great transference body, i.e., rainbow body in this life. Virtually all others attain it in the bardo, or failing that, in a pure nirmanakāya buddhafield.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12322
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Dragon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:50 pm

Malcolm wrote:
ZOOM wrote:Why do only very few Dzogchen practitioners attain rainbow body compared to the high number of Dzogchen practitioners in the world?


There are 21 types of capacties of practitioners. Only the best of the best attain great transference body, i.e., rainbow body in this life. Virtually all others attain it in the bardo, or failing that, in a pure nirmanakāya buddhafield.


ChNNR is "the best of the best." So there ya go.

Image
User avatar
Dragon
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Mother's Lap » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:52 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
Emakirikiri wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:I will attain rainbow body in Sukhavati (if there is such thing as Sukhavati and rainbow body that is)

Respectfully speaking, you won't with that attitude any time soon.


We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

No need for passive waiting, that's too easy! Cultivate doubtlessness and merit making alongside wishing that you will see Amitabha "face-to-face" otherwise even if you do have the merit required to be born in Sukhavati, you may be born in the lowest rank and never even receive teachings from Amitabha himself, 'merely' be put on the bodhisattva path by Avalokiteshvara and Mahasthamaprapta/Vajrapani. There's no time to rest on your laurels in the Pure Land school, you may not even have the merit to be born there after this life, Amitabha's 19th vow of seeing him when you die by chanting his name/mantra does not equal rebirth in Sukhavati by any means.
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby ngodrup » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:01 pm

How many dzogchen yogis are free of the eight worldly concerns
and spend a significant portion of their life in solitary retreat?

It is said that Mipham didn't simply because he was so busy writing!
ngodrup
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:16 pm

ngodrup wrote:How many dzogchen yogis are free of the eight worldly concerns
and spend a significant portion of their life in solitary retreat?


The same could be said of many so called "Dzogchen teachers".

Anyway, whether your corpse shrinks or you wake up in the bardo, your body still reverts to the five lights of pure consciousness [ye shes].

M
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12322
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby ZOOM » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
ZOOM wrote:Why do only very few Dzogchen practitioners attain rainbow body compared to the high number of Dzogchen practitioners in the world?


There are 21 types of capacties of practitioners. Only the best of the best attain great transference body, i.e., rainbow body in this life.
Virtually all others attain it in the bardo, or failing that, in a pure nirmanakāya buddhafield.


...and every good Christian goes to heaven after death!
I think it's absurd to blindly believe that "virtually all other" Dzogchen practitioners attain something after death besides reincarnation!

The only Dzogchen practitioners we can be sure that they achieved something meaningful at all in their training are those attaining rainbow body during life or at death.
ZOOM
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Punya » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:26 pm

ngodrup wrote:How many dzogchen yogis are free of the eight worldly concerns
and spend a significant portion of their life in solitary retreat?

It is said that Mipham didn't simply because he was so busy writing!


Ah, a bodhisattva then. And how grateful we are for the writing.

Zoom, I don't understand the seeming obsession with the rainbow body. Wouldn't waking up in the bardo do as well? (but not saying that's easy). And either way, isn't best just to focus on practice. Becoming too attached to a particular goal just seems like another trap.
Last edited by Punya on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unless the inner forces of negative emotions are conquered
Strife with outer enemies will never end.
~Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
User avatar
Punya
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:28 pm

ZOOM wrote:The only Dzogchen practitioners we can be sure that they achieved something meaningful at all in their training are those attaining rainbow body during life or at death.


I think you really need to study the teachings a bit more before making such confidence pronouncements.

All these grades of practitioners are described in detail by the Buddha in such tantras as the Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and so on, where the whole process is very precisely described, how many days they remain in the bardo of dharmatā, how many emanations they will have after achieving liberation in the bardo and so on.
Last edited by Malcolm on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12322
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Why do only very few practitioners attain rainbow body?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:44 pm

Punya wrote:waking up in the bardo do as well? (but not saying that's easy).


Achieving Buddhahood in the bardo is much easier than in this life. Why? It is because in the bardo state we have seven times more clarity. Buddha Vajrasattva states in the Victor’s Speech Tantra

    After that, in the bardo of rebirth the present unobstructed awareness with complete sense organs has seven times more clarity.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12322
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Next

Return to Dzogchen

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

>