Practicing Together and lungs

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Practicing Together and lungs

Postby Reibeam » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:09 pm

Hello All,

Question about group practice:

If a number people were planning to get together and do chNNr's Green Tara practice and everyone but two people had received introductory transmission and the Green Tara lung from chNNr, but had done Tara pracices before from other teachers would it be okay for them to participate in a group practice setting and do chNNr's Green Tara practice?

Both of these folks are intending on receiving transmission from chNNr eventually. I don't want to discourage them from coming to an event, but although it is a peaceful practice (obviously no action mantras during this gathering) It requires a lung so I am not sure what to do other than do another Tara practice that everyone has authorization for.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

R
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:15 pm

Reibeam wrote:Hello All,

Question about group practice:

If a number people were planning to get together and do chNNr's Green Tara practice and everyone but two people had received introductory transmission and the Green Tara lung from chNNr, but had done Tara pracices before from other teachers would it be okay for them to participate in a group practice setting and do chNNr's Green Tara practice?

Both of these folks are intending on receiving transmission from chNNr eventually. I don't want to discourage them from coming to an event, but although it is a peaceful practice (obviously no action mantras during this gathering) It requires a lung so I am not sure what to do other than do another Tara practice that everyone has authorization for.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

R


You will get various answers, but if people are interested, let them come.
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby heart » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:54 pm

In general I always heard that for group practice, you don't need the transmission.

/magnus
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby Reibeam » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:42 pm

Thank you to you both!
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby T. Chokyi » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Reibeam wrote:Hello All,

Question about group practice:

If a number people were planning to get together and do chNNr's Green Tara practice and everyone but two people had received introductory transmission and the Green Tara lung from chNNr, but had done Tara pracices before from other teachers would it be okay for them to participate in a group practice setting and do chNNr's Green Tara practice?

Both of these folks are intending on receiving transmission from chNNr eventually. I don't want to discourage them from coming to an event, but although it is a peaceful practice (obviously no action mantras during this gathering) It requires a lung so I am not sure what to do other than do another Tara practice that everyone has authorization for.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

R


IMHO It does not work without the lung, Rinpoche says lung is indespensible, but if they intend on getting the lung, I think Tara isn't uptight about having her sadhana read, perhaps they can see her as outside themselves (Kriya style) receiving lights from Taras heart to their heart etc... rather than a self generation.

I don't see why not...in a "temporary" way it would do harm, but sometimes if a yidam is a little different from one tradition to another then there could be a genuine difference, a teacher or their students, may say you can't practice "Northern Tradition" for a yidam if you didn't receive that empowerment within Northern Treasures and apply it to your practice in a different Ter.. This might be especially important if there is a difference in the visual, or the mantra etc.... So there are Ter's that are really different even though the yiddam is quite similar, has the same name and "essence", in other words Green Tara is Green Tara, however with that said if she has a different mantra in one tradition from the another tradition or holds some implements differently from one tradition to another, then you may want to get a separate lung for the practice you are doing and know in a certain way these differences and similarities. So far I have not seen strong differences in the visual and different mantras for Green Tara, but YMMV (Your mileage may vary), and your treasure text might vary. Theres a stand alone Red Tara for example Chagdud Rinpcohe gave, with a beautiful and distinct origination, and imho that empowerment is for that practice and not for every other practice, however Chagdud Rinpoche might have said do it anyway...because some Lamas are not going stop people with motivation to practice.

Knowing how CHNN presents transformation practices, he says always to go in the essence, so if you go in that practice with transformation and go in the essence then I don't see why not, I'm not even sure it matters that much to get the seed syllable just "right" for beginning practice for CHNN, as he does not say you have to do it perfect with the seed syllable absolutely perfect right away, but from that center of Tara could be a green sphere or ball (bindu/tigle) of light...however, if you have a teacher you are dealing with other than CHNN they may consider you need a lung from their lineage tree. People will need a lung to actually practice, at least eventually.
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby Soap-Bubble » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:00 pm

There was a case once that a new and very inspired practitioner came to a collective practice without the lung and without direct transmission. Some practitioners didn't like that and started to argue that he shouldn't do it. In the end, the new guy mailed Rinpoche and asked him about it. Rinpoche replied that yes, he could attend the practice.

That's a story that really happened. We don't know if the practice would be effective this way, probably not, but Rinpoche's reaction shows that it's not breaking the rules to let highly inspired people practice. :smile:
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby oldbob » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:38 am

Soap-Bubble wrote:There was a case once that a new and very inspired practitioner came to a collective practice without the lung and without direct transmission. Some practitioners didn't like that and started to argue that he shouldn't do it. In the end, the new guy mailed Rinpoche and asked him about it. Rinpoche replied that yes, he could attend the practice.

That's a story that really happened. We don't know if the practice would be effective this way, probably not, but Rinpoche's reaction shows that it's not breaking the rules to let highly inspired people practice. :smile:


:namaste:

Good advice all.


This last makes sense and of course you can write a one line question to ChNNR if you still have personal doubts.

There are many things that still remain to be sorted out. I am partial to the V. Jigme Lingpa / V. Longchenpa solution of allowing for transmission by direct vision / dream. All of the Lamas agree that this actually happened. Of course you have to have the same kind of great faith that brings tears to your eyes and makes your arm hairs stand up (meaning you are not in Kansas anymore). If you can take transmission in this way then it will work. (money-back guarantee)

:rules: :smile:

You can read about it here: Apparitions of the Self - The Secret Autobiographies of a Tibetan Visionary.

http://www.amazon.com/Apparitions-Self- ... net+gyatso"

p 41,54,149,150-51 ($12.94 used)

Remember that while Dr. Gyatso is a fully accomplished scholar, she is also an outstanding practitioner, so you will sometimes have to have patience with the rigorously correct academic style to find the light within - but it is there.

I had the great good fortune to study with Dr. Gyatso under V. John Brzostosky, in his legendary class at the New School, in NYC, in 1966-67. John gave real Direct Introduction, Tibetan empowerments. Though he had no lung or empowerments for what he taught, he none-the-less gave real transmission: the room turned golden and I was not in Kansas anymore. Occasionally he still teaches at Tibet House in NYC. You can inquire about him there.

Transmission is what cooks the rice. Words and views are words and views, and the rice stays cold.

Now I have to go have some rice - supper. :smile:

If Jigme Lingpa had never "went for it" he never would have "gotton it." Go for it!

Yes - it is like that.

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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby Reibeam » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:28 am

oldbob wrote:
Soap-Bubble wrote:There was a case once that a new and very inspired practitioner came to a collective practice without the lung and without direct transmission. Some practitioners didn't like that and started to argue that he shouldn't do it. In the end, the new guy mailed Rinpoche and asked him about it. Rinpoche replied that yes, he could attend the practice.

That's a story that really happened. We don't know if the practice would be effective this way, probably not, but Rinpoche's reaction shows that it's not breaking the rules to let highly inspired people practice. :smile:


:namaste:

Good advice all.


This last makes sense and of course you can write a one line question to ChNNR if you still have personal doubts.

There are many things that still remain to be sorted out. I am partial to the V. Jigme Lingpa / V. Longchenpa solution of allowing for transmission by direct vision / dream. All of the Lamas agree that this actually happened. Of course you have to have the same kind of great faith that brings tears to your eyes and makes your arm hairs stand up (meaning you are not in Kansas anymore). If you can take transmission in this way then it will work. (money-back guarantee)

:rules: :smile:

You can read about it here: Apparitions of the Self - The Secret Autobiographies of a Tibetan Visionary.

http://www.amazon.com/Apparitions-Self- ... net+gyatso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

p 41,54,149,150-51 ($12.94 used)

Remember that while Dr. Gyatso is a fully accomplished scholar, she is also an outstanding practitioner, so you will sometimes have to have patience with the rigorously correct academic style to find the light within - but it is there.

I had the great good fortune to study with Dr. Gyatso under V. John Brzostosky, in his legendary class at the New School, in NYC, in 1966-67. John gave real Direct Introduction, Tibetan empowerments. Though he had no lung or empowerments for what he taught, he none-the-less gave real transmission: the room turned golden and I was not in Kansas anymore. Occasionally he still teaches at Tibet House in NYC. You can inquire about him there.

Transmission is what cooks the rice. Words and views are words and views, and the rice stays cold.

Now I have to go have some rice - supper. :smile:

If Jigme Lingpa had never "went for it" he never would have "gotton it." Go for it!

Yes - it is like that.

:heart:


Thanks for the comments and book suggestion!

After the previous comments we did have a group practice a fews days ago (a handful of friends are putting together a group primarily dedicated to Tara practice) and since then both folks who were interested in chNNr's practices are intending to watch the next open webcast retreat to get an introduction.

Its funny you mention the "Not being in Kansas anymore" because I actually am most of the time. Well, Kansas City, MO and there is virtually no physical chNNr DC community where I live as far as I am aware so any interest here in the Midwest Mandala is positive and when there is some people seem very surprised................ Once I was in Colorado Springs at a Tibetan shop and the tibetan shopkeeper after chatting for a while about where my wife and I were visiting from offered me a 30% discount on a thangka of Guru Tragphur simply for identifying it correctly and he kept saying "They have Buddhists in Kansas? Wow! They know Guru Tragphur? Wow!" It was pretty funny.

Its amazing how these connections manifest and how people find the Dharma no matter where they are, we are so fortunate to encounter these teachings and have so many possibilities for interaction. This forum has been indispensable for me in many was. I have a couple teachers, but this forum is like "First Response" for most things, (especially technical stuff thanks mostly to Malcolm and Magnus).

I guess your Kansas comment got me to thinking about how thankful I am to have this resource and receive thoughtful comments like yours and all the other's here . So :thanks:
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby oldbob » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:55 am

Maybe in the future, when all of ChNNR's retreats are on line, for free, for members, and there exists a Longcnepa / Jigme Lingpa transmission and Lung path of permissions and access, perhaps there might be a web site with rooms for practice of each of the more than 120 secondary practices that ChNNR has taught in his more than 500 retreats. Practitioners can link up or leave as they feel moved.

Then those who have capacity can help those who are beginners, and all of the 120 practices can be preserved in a practice lineage.
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Re: Practicing Together and lungs

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:18 pm

" Transmission is what cooks the rice " true that. But being around the kitchen can't hurt.
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