Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

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Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby alpha » Fri May 30, 2014 9:59 am

What is the difference between Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha in terms of actions and removing obstacles ?
It seems that in general the prefered choice for removing obstacles related to spirit possession, black magic, provocations is Simhamukha although as far as i know DD is much more powerful but don't know in what way powerful ,so i've been told.
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby alpha » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:59 pm

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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:08 pm

alpha wrote:What is the difference between Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha in terms of actions and removing obstacles ?
It seems that in general the prefered choice for removing obstacles related to spirit possession, black magic, provocations is Simhamukha although as far as i know DD is much more powerful but don't know in what way powerful ,so i've been told.


Drollo is meant for controlling the eight classes in general.

M
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby alpha » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:54 pm

Malcolm wrote:
alpha wrote:What is the difference between Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha in terms of actions and removing obstacles ?
It seems that in general the prefered choice for removing obstacles related to spirit possession, black magic, provocations is Simhamukha although as far as i know DD is much more powerful but don't know in what way powerful ,so i've been told.


Drollo is meant for controlling the eight classes in general.

M



Thanks Malcolm.

How would one know that the obstacles one faces are in fact due to the eight classes ?
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Vajrasvapna » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:46 pm

The difference is that Simhamukha 'specializes' in reversing the negative will and subdue the female harmful spirits: Therefore, although Simhamukha is a Dakini in her aspect, she functions as a Yidam or meditation deity and her special functions are averting and repulsing (bzlog-pa) psychic attacks that may assault the practitioner and the subduing of negative female energy as personified by the Matrikas or Mamos. http://vajranatha.com/teaching/Simhamukha.htm.
While Dorje Drollo is a manifestation of guru Padmasambhava's crazy wisdom to concealing terma and binding spirits under oath:At thirteen different places called 'Tiger's Lair', Taktsang, Guru Rinpoche manifested in "the terrifying wrathful form of crazy wisdom", binding worldly spirits under oath to protect the terma treasures and serve the Dharma. Then he is known as Dorje Drolö, 'Wild Wrathful Vajra'.http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Guru_Dorje_Drol%C3%B6.
"It cuts the root of the mind;
It cuts the root of the five poisonous emotions
And the extreme views, which become the causes for meditation;
As well as conduct accompanied by inadequacy, hope, fear,
And pride— because it cuts all of these,
It is defined as Chöd."
Aryadeva

"Firstly with the thought of “I”, they cling to self,
And then with “mine”, they grow attached to things,
Helplessly, they wander like a turning waterwheel."
Candrakīrti

"'A great yogi' simply means being free from attachment and clinging." Guru Padma
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:37 pm

alpha wrote:
How would one know that the obstacles one faces are in fact due to the eight classes ?


Well, concretely it is difficult to know without some kind of divination or calculation.

M
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Vajrasvapna » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:02 pm

alpha wrote:How would one know that the obstacles one faces are in fact due to the eight classes ?

Some signs are negative dreams, feelings of being persecuted or of a negative presence, fatigue and lack of energy. If the main obstacles that you experience are women, then it is likely that there is a predominance of female spirits; otherwise, a predominance of male spirits.
"It cuts the root of the mind;
It cuts the root of the five poisonous emotions
And the extreme views, which become the causes for meditation;
As well as conduct accompanied by inadequacy, hope, fear,
And pride— because it cuts all of these,
It is defined as Chöd."
Aryadeva

"Firstly with the thought of “I”, they cling to self,
And then with “mine”, they grow attached to things,
Helplessly, they wander like a turning waterwheel."
Candrakīrti

"'A great yogi' simply means being free from attachment and clinging." Guru Padma
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:07 pm

Vajrasvapna wrote:
alpha wrote:How would one know that the obstacles one faces are in fact due to the eight classes ?

Some signs are negative dreams, feelings of being persecuted or of a negative presence, fatigue and lack of energy. If the main obstacles that you experience are women, then it is likely that there is a predominance of female spirits; otherwise, a predominance of male spirits.



These things are not certain. If you want to _know_ for certain, then mo or calculation is the surest bet. Otherwise, you can become very paranoid and fearful, seeing ghosts under the bed everywhere.

In Tibetan Medicine and astrology, we deal with provocations all the time. In fact, when we are diagnosing an illness, we only suspect provocations when a treatment that ought to respond to a treatment is not responding at all.

Diagnosing provocations is a very specialized part of both Tibetan medicine — it can be done through pulse and through urine.

I know many practitioners who assume every problem is a problem with spirits -- this is really sad.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Vajrasvapna » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:35 pm

Malcolm wrote:These things are not certain. If you want to _know_ for certain, then mo or calculation is the surest bet. Otherwise, you can become very paranoid and fearful, seeing ghosts under the bed everywhere.

You are right in fact, I just offered some signs of the presence of spirits. Even though it is not an actual spirit, this signals may represent some internal 'demon', in a symbolic sense. On the other hand, unless you have a high level of realization, make a forecast may also offer a wrong result. Therefore, it is necessary to know how to take failures on the path.

I know many practitioners who assume every problem is a problem with spirits -- this is really sad.

As my main practice is the practice of Chöd, I see every obstacle as a demon, both as symbolic and real. To me, the essence is to recognize all appearances as illusory, otherwise the mind is taken by hopes and fears.
"It cuts the root of the mind;
It cuts the root of the five poisonous emotions
And the extreme views, which become the causes for meditation;
As well as conduct accompanied by inadequacy, hope, fear,
And pride— because it cuts all of these,
It is defined as Chöd."
Aryadeva

"Firstly with the thought of “I”, they cling to self,
And then with “mine”, they grow attached to things,
Helplessly, they wander like a turning waterwheel."
Candrakīrti

"'A great yogi' simply means being free from attachment and clinging." Guru Padma
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby michaelb » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:21 am

alpha wrote:What is the difference between Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha in terms of actions and removing obstacles ?
which one's best? That's what we really want to know. If you've got a problem, which one should you rely on?
Of course, you could practice both, yab yum, to keep all bases covered maybe?
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Vajrasvapna » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:10 pm

michaelb wrote:
alpha wrote:What is the difference between Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha in terms of actions and removing obstacles ?
which one's best? That's what we really want to know. If you've got a problem, which one should you rely on?
Of course, you could practice both, yab yum, to keep all bases covered maybe?

The best is to ask the practical instruction from a qualified lama, but I notice that the Simhamukha's practice is more popular.
"It cuts the root of the mind;
It cuts the root of the five poisonous emotions
And the extreme views, which become the causes for meditation;
As well as conduct accompanied by inadequacy, hope, fear,
And pride— because it cuts all of these,
It is defined as Chöd."
Aryadeva

"Firstly with the thought of “I”, they cling to self,
And then with “mine”, they grow attached to things,
Helplessly, they wander like a turning waterwheel."
Candrakīrti

"'A great yogi' simply means being free from attachment and clinging." Guru Padma
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby oldbob » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:47 am

Vajrasvapna wrote:
michaelb wrote:
alpha wrote:What is the difference between Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha in terms of actions and removing obstacles ?
which one's best? That's what we really want to know. If you've got a problem, which one should you rely on?
Of course, you could practice both, yab yum, to keep all bases covered maybe?

The best is to ask the practical instruction from a qualified lama, but I notice that the Simhamukha's practice is more popular.



I once asked a qualified Lama, Lama Vajranatha, this question, and he wisely replied that being in the state of instant presense is the best defense against any provocation. Any transformation practice is a construction with the inherent limitations that are built in (like a patch on cloth that falls off when circumstances change).

Instant presence has no features what-so-ever and so is beyond defeat, reproach, or any qualification.

Let them eat Dharmakaya!
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Vajrasvapna » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:04 am

oldbob wrote:I once asked a qualified Lama, Lama Vajranatha, this question, and he wisely replied that being in the state of instant presense is the best defense against any provocation. Any transformation practice is a construction with the inherent limitations that are built in (like a patch on cloth that falls off when circumstances change).

Instant presence has no features what-so-ever and so is beyond defeat, reproach, or any qualification.

Let them eat Dharmakaya!


Very beautiful to speak, very difficult to practice. Even Guru Padmasambhava made ​​use of transformation method to protect themselves from attacks, for example. He turned into Simhamukha against a group of hateful Hindu scholars who had been defeated in debate.

As stated by Manjusrimitra.
8. The Validity of Contemplating Oneself as Divine
124 The World-Teacher has taught: "The use of an authentic indicative Symbolism (samketa) is also [a
valid way to] Enlightenment."
125 That [spoken of] here refers to techniques for the generation (utpatti) and meditation
(bhavana) of the Enlightened-mind [through symbolic procedures].
126 Having applied the three seals (mudra) which are signifiers [of Enlightenment], and stabilized the
three Contemplations (tri-samadhi)
127 then through the practice of reciting the Heart Mantra one generates the reality of the Mahamudra of
Mind-in-itself.
http://www.dharmafellowship.org/library/texts/cultivation-of-enlightened-mind.htm#fifteen
"It cuts the root of the mind;
It cuts the root of the five poisonous emotions
And the extreme views, which become the causes for meditation;
As well as conduct accompanied by inadequacy, hope, fear,
And pride— because it cuts all of these,
It is defined as Chöd."
Aryadeva

"Firstly with the thought of “I”, they cling to self,
And then with “mine”, they grow attached to things,
Helplessly, they wander like a turning waterwheel."
Candrakīrti

"'A great yogi' simply means being free from attachment and clinging." Guru Padma
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby asunthatneversets » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:11 am

Vajrasvapna wrote:Very beautiful to speak, very difficult to practice. Even Guru Padmasambhava made ​​use of transformation method to protect themselves from attacks, for example. He turned into Simhamukha against a group of hateful Hindu scholars who had been defeated in debate.

As stated by Manjusrimitra.
8. The Validity of Contemplating Oneself as Divine
124 The World-Teacher has taught: "The use of an authentic indicative Symbolism (samketa) is also [a
valid way to] Enlightenment."
125 That [spoken of] here refers to techniques for the generation (utpatti) and meditation
(bhavana) of the Enlightened-mind [through symbolic procedures].
126 Having applied the three seals (mudra) which are signifiers [of Enlightenment], and stabilized the
three Contemplations (tri-samadhi)
127 then through the practice of reciting the Heart Mantra one generates the reality of the Mahamudra of
Mind-in-itself.
http://www.dharmafellowship.org/library/texts/cultivation-of-enlightened-mind.htm#fifteen


Guru Rinpoche emanated as Senge Dradog against the tīrthikas, not Senge Dogma.
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Re: Dorje Drollo and Simhamukha

Postby Vajrasvapna » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:41 am

asunthatneversets wrote:Guru Rinpoche emanated as Senge Dradog against the tīrthikas, not Senge Dogma.


Sorry, a little confusion. :tongue:
"It cuts the root of the mind;
It cuts the root of the five poisonous emotions
And the extreme views, which become the causes for meditation;
As well as conduct accompanied by inadequacy, hope, fear,
And pride— because it cuts all of these,
It is defined as Chöd."
Aryadeva

"Firstly with the thought of “I”, they cling to self,
And then with “mine”, they grow attached to things,
Helplessly, they wander like a turning waterwheel."
Candrakīrti

"'A great yogi' simply means being free from attachment and clinging." Guru Padma
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