Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Malcolm
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:35 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
No. They did not. They completely misunderstood the teachings. They might have seen bindus but they did not understand the part about not conceptualizing them and not concretizing or universalizing them.


Do you know them personally, or are you basing your opinion merely off of their books? Also, doesn't it strike you as a bit unkind to refer to Rachel Olds in such a condemning way? Speaking strictly for myself I would prefer to think that she will take a human birth again, in a Dharma family.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen

Crazywisdom
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:44 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
No. They did not. They completely misunderstood the teachings. They might have seen bindus but they did not understand the part about not conceptualizing them and not concretizing or universalizing them.


Do you know them personally, or are you basing your opinion merely off of their books? Also, doesn't it strike you as a bit unkind to refer to Rachel Olds in such a condemning way? Speaking strictly for myself I would prefer to think that she will take a human birth again, in a Dharma family.


Their books reveal clearly they did not understand the teachings. They veered off from their guru. No guru would approve. I'm sure she will find the teachings again. The teachings have that power. Conceptualizing appearances stirs the karmic wind. Though even Yama's actions are compassionate. Such a detour would happen to a mind that misuses these dangerous teachings in such a blatant way. Why dangerous? This gets to the very core of our existence even our potential to generate forms in any realms. It gets to the most sensitive point of our programming. One wrong move and much has to be done to repair. Like ganapuja. All masters handle things with great care and still small errors can prevent rainbow body. But completely disregarding the guardians, and the gurus, I dont think there's a rosy picture to paint about that.
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.

Malcolm
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:33 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:I'm sure she will find the teachings again.


Then why paint such a condemning picture?
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen

Crazywisdom
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:29 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:I'm sure she will find the teachings again.


Then why paint such a condemning picture?


Her students will not. She received Longchen Nyingthig. Her students received Earth Visions.
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.

Malcolm
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:58 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:I'm sure she will find the teachings again.


Then why paint such a condemning picture?


Her students will not. She received Longchen Nyingthig. Her students received Earth Visions.


I really don't think they have many students.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen

Karma Dorje
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Karma Dorje » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:08 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:Their books reveal clearly they did not understand the teachings. They veered off from their guru. No guru would approve. I'm sure she will find the teachings again. The teachings have that power. Conceptualizing appearances stirs the karmic wind. Though even Yama's actions are compassionate. Such a detour would happen to a mind that misuses these dangerous teachings in such a blatant way. Why dangerous? This gets to the very core of our existence even our potential to generate forms in any realms. It gets to the most sensitive point of our programming. One wrong move and much has to be done to repair. Like ganapuja. All masters handle things with great care and still small errors can prevent rainbow body. But completely disregarding the guardians, and the gurus, I dont think there's a rosy picture to paint about that.


Without the ability to see this directly, what possible good comes from speculation? If we believe in the teachings on bardo and the sensitivity of bardo beings, should we not be generating a mind of love, kindness and optimism for her rather than a mind of disputation and condemnation? The problems of breaking one's samaya with the root guru if she did so are for her to deal with, not for us to speculate on. For the next 49 days, let's take the teachings to heart and generate as much care and support as we can.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
~Arthur Carlson

Nemo
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Nemo » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:15 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:I think we all know what to do:
Image

There is no reason whatsoever to make a publicly available book about these teaching. Except to make a quick buck. Hopefully this book will now be forgotten and we can go home. Also some of the Old's comments sound painfully uninformed even to me.

dzogchungpa
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby dzogchungpa » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:37 pm

Nemo wrote: There is no reason whatsoever to make a publicly available book about these teaching. Except to make a quick buck. Hopefully this book will now be forgotten and we can go home. Also some of the Old's comments sound painfully uninformed even to me.

You're right, I just like that image. :smile:
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔

Sherab Dorje
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:15 am

Thread locked for clean up.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

Sherab Dorje
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:17 pm

Right, this thread was reported for a number of reasons. The problem is, that to show fairness in editing, I would have to delete half the thread. That means that I would have to delete some valid points too. I have decided to leave the thread as it stands, but to make a couple of points points clear:

Criticising somebody that is not present is normally considered bad form. Speaking ill of the recently dead is normally considered despicable.

When one takes into account that the criticism is coming from a practitioner of a vehicle that gives such importance to the bardo period, and the possibly disrupting effect of negative circumstances during that period (for the recently deceased), then that takes that despicability to a whole new level.

People should show some restraint in their criticisms, at this critical point in time, until at least the procedure of the bardo of death and rebirth has come to an end. AT LEAST.

I will reopen the thread, but if people show an incapacity to behave in a sensitive and compassionate manner, then I will lock it, issue formal warnings and even suspensions.

Thank you.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


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